00:00 - Aaron (Host)
taking part in the future of us. Chris, what's up, man? You are muted.
00:06 - Cris (Guest)
My friend, how about now? You are great.
00:12 - Aaron (Host)
What's going on, man?
00:14 - Cris (Guest)
Good to see you guys. Y'all look cozy, it's nice in here.
00:17 - Mel (Host)
I know you look like you're hanging out outside.
00:19 - Cris (Guest)
I'm hanging out on my porch. It's a beautiful day here, yes.
00:23 - Mel (Host)
You know, last time we talked to you we were recording from our porch. Since then we've upgraded into a studio so we don't have to worry about the leaf blowers going on.
00:33 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, you might hear some of that now. I've kind of got the birds chirping, that's all right.
00:38 - Apple (Host)
That's OK. You're bringing the old school. Since we're in a studio now, you know were just saying, wow, we've gotten fancy since five years ago.
00:47 - Aaron (Host)
I can't believe it's been five years man isn't it crazy?
00:50 - Cris (Guest)
it's like with covid we erased like at least two years at least oh yeah, I've often said the very same thing like it doesn't count it doesn't count, it does. It wasn't five years really welcome back. Yeah, man good talking to you guys again so how's things going?
01:11 - Aaron (Host)
man, you doing good doing good.
01:13 - Cris (Guest)
Doing good. It's um, yeah, I got this new record coming out in two weeks, so I'm excited about that and playing a lot of shows and sort of uh, busier than I've been in a few years, so that it's good I noticed, man, I you've been, you've been working the social media angle hard well, it's not, that's not, it's not always me.
01:38
We hired a team for that, you know. But, um, which is cool, I mean I, I personally it's never been my favorite thing to do, but uh, you know, I guess you gotta get the word out there and and, uh, and then it's very important these days, but yeah, we're, and I am very excited about the record, so I'm trying to spread the word on that as much as possible yeah, we're.
01:59 - Apple (Host)
We're very excited about it too. We've heard those, the the three tracks you can listen to right now and I should have sent you a link ahead of time. I had oh, it's all good. That's okay. You can always send it to us to listen to after this. I know I mean with with the infamous string dusters being your band and then all the all the guest appearances on it.
02:21 - Cris (Guest)
It's oh, man yeah, yeah, it's, it was.
02:25 - Aaron (Host)
Uh, it was an unbelievable experience in so many ways and I'm super proud of it, super excited about it so for everybody that's listening this, and chris, just so you know, this will probably come out probably around the week that you're gonna release, maybe a week after, if that's cool sure we're releasing next friday. Yeah, the 26th right okay yeah, so for everybody listening, the name of the album is one of these days, and there's features on this like billy strings and, and, uh, sam bush, leanne womack yeah, sam Bush, leanne Womack.
03:05 - Apple (Host)
Yeah, lindsay Lou. Lindsay Lou, we just saw her up at Winter Wondergrass. Lindsay Lou, she's something special.
03:13 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, she's got a magic to her for sure.
03:17 - Aaron (Host)
So, chris, tell me a little bit about the genesis of the album man. How did this come about? Well, the short of it, and then we can get as deep as you want, let's, let's go was.
03:30 - Cris (Guest)
You know it was. I was coming out of a strange period in my life of, uh, you know, uh, just wondering where I was going next and and, um, you, my, my mental state was maybe a little fragile and I just was kind of tired of of how things had been going for me. And I just had an epiphany to get back to sort of the bluegrass roots of stuff that I that was like really inspirational for me years ago when I first started playing and it was like kind of what got me like really hooked and excited, you know, about taking music seriously. So I, I felt like getting back to that and, um, I said, you know what, I'm just gonna sit in my barn and listen to some, like all some of the old stuff that really used to turn me on and and just pick some acoustic guitar and write some songs and see, see what happens. And then, uh, and then I I had just met jerry douglas a couple months prior at uh delfest and he was real nice to me and real complimentary in my set.
04:35
So I said you know what, I'm gonna see, I'll call jerry and see if he wants to produce this, this hypothetical bluegrass record that I'm thinking about. And uh, so I did and and he was like, yeah, I'd love to do it. So before I even had any songs, he was signed on. And then I, uh, I called the dusters and I had done like a session with them a couple years prior on one of their songs and and, jokingly, was like, yeah, one of these days I'm gonna do a bluegrass record and get you guys as the band. And so I thought of that and I just like decided to hit them up. And they were down and I once jerry douglas is involved, it's sort of easy to to wrangle other people, right.
05:18
So uh so that was good and so so, yeah, there it was. It was like we booked a studio time like six months ahead and I didn't have any songs yet, but that was. But I wanted to do it, but that was when everybody's schedules lined up. So there we were, off and running and uh, and it was just great because I was it, you know it, it really pushed me in a direction that was really healing for me musically and comforting and, and you know, I kind of came out of this bunk, I was in and it turned out just so beautifully and, and you know, learned a lot of things along the way and it was just, it made it a really fun sort of lane to to ride in. You know what I mean.
06:03
It was uh was uh, and I and I just sort of got back to that, to that essence of of a type of music that I really love and I mean I you know not to say that the record is 100 hard driving bluegrass, because it's still my songs and still got me, but it's got a string band behind me and jerry producing and then you know we started pulling in all these other special guests. You know song by song and you know it's just yeah, it was, it was very healing process I can see it in your face, man, I could see that, like whatever you did, was good medicine for you it really was.
06:40
I mean, there was other things that I was doing. Uh, you know, I I was in kind of a you know, use the word depression, whatever state you want to call it, but you know I started taking antidepressants and having a therapist and doing meditation and then getting back to this music and keeping it real simple, Keeping everything real simple, just wrote all the songs on my acoustic guitar and this was sort of like the lens that I was seeing things through musically and all the other things I was trying to do for my, for my mind and body. It was really just the whole thing, you know, like from where I was a year and a half ago to where I am now. Just the way I feel is is really like tons, tons better.
07:31 - Aaron (Host)
So that's good man, congratulations.
07:33 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, man, it's good to hear.
07:34 - Aaron (Host)
I think that life has a way like especially when you're doing something creative, we have a way of like getting lost in the sauce, so to speak, of of everything that's happening and the process and the the business side of it, and all of it. And I think sometimes, when you've end up in that place where you're feeling the way you were feeling, the only thing that you can do is return to your roots yeah to find out why you even really started doing the shit in the first place, man, because it was.
08:13 - Cris (Guest)
That's what it was like. Yeah, I just remembered that feeling and it was like just it's, it's such a comfortable lane for me to live in you know it's not, I'm not going to be the only thing. It's like I say I'm not, you know, all of a sudden changed until, like you know, wearing, like you know, boy hat and and playing a band. You know every show, you know all that, but but it uh, yeah, it brought me back somewhere. It was feeling what?
08:41 - Aaron (Host)
what was the? You said? You went back and you were like listening to some music that used to turn you on. What was the music? What's some of that stuff?
08:49 - Cris (Guest)
uh tony rice, doc watson, like uh, olabelle reed, and then some like old appalachian banjo stuff, like doc boggs, yule kz, and then like delta blues, like you know, just KZ, and then like Delta Blues, like you know just any acoustic roots, and then like went back to like some like field hollers and work song recording. I just was, like you know, getting trying to get deep on it and trying to get just trying to, like I say, get back to the simple, the simpleness of it. And you know I'd go for go for walks and just like hear melodies in my head and just try to really just start from a real, real bare bones place. And yeah, it was good.
09:34 - Mel (Host)
Before you started writing this and deciding like, yeah, I need to kind of get out of this. Were you feeling musically inclined or creative, like in that time where you weren't feeling your best, like, like you said, a little bit depression or whatever?
09:48 - Aaron (Host)
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10:20
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10:41 - Apple (Host)
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10:51 - Aaron (Host)
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11:09 - Apple (Host)
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11:12 - Aaron (Host)
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11:20 - Cris (Guest)
Yes, and no Truth be told, I made a record coming out of covid, okay, and I never put it out. Um, oh, wow, and, and you know it was great, it was, it still is, and it was, uh, I worked with this guy named brad cook. I don't know if you know brad cook. He's a, he's a great producer. Um, he's done a lot of cool stuff and and we worked together. But it was really in kind of the throes of what it was going, whatever was going on with me, and I was just like and I and I squeezed a bunch of songs out, like half that record. I wrote like, like literally the week that we recorded it, like I would come in and be like here's what I wrote last night in in house I was staying at, you know, and, like you know, crying as I play it.
12:06
You know, just you know, and and like, I think there's some really great stuff on that record and I, you know I was going to put it out, and then, long story short, I didn't and uh, and then I didn't want to after I hadn't. After all that time I just didn't want to, like the window had closed and I still want to put it out one day and will, and um it, just you know, it'll find the right time, but it was sort of like I I needed to start fresh.
12:38 - Aaron (Host)
Was it just that it was too raw for you?
12:41 - Cris (Guest)
Oh, I don't, I've tried, I've tried to like figure it out why exactly, you know just, it just didn't.
12:51
um, it was like once I finished doing it, it was like okay, it's done, moving on, like I you know, when you put out a record, you got to talk about the songs and you got to play the songs I don't know, I was like I said I was in a very insecure, fragile place, like where, like I just didn't know I was like I said, I was in a very insecure, fragile place, like where, like I just didn't know, I didn't even know if I was going to like continue on this path of of, like you know, playing music for a living just because it's, you know, it's real serious, real fast, and it just felt like I was, you know, uh, I was sort of just lost and that was what really I felt like got my feet back under me, was getting back to the, to this stuff, you know the only way out is in.
13:40 - Aaron (Host)
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14:03 - Apple (Host)
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14:16 - Aaron (Host)
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14:44 - Apple (Host)
The only way out is in since we talked to you last, so you, you had a daughter last time we talked to you and now you have another child I got two daughters, yeah, two daughters now, yeah, your daughter's seven.
14:57 - Aaron (Host)
One of them seven, right seven and four, yeah, wow wow, that's like full time daddy stuff right there you're in the throes so it's, you know, trying to be the best I can be for them, for my wife, and you know, support them.
15:18 - Cris (Guest)
And you know this music thing. They told us it would be hard. I didn't believe them. You know what we've talked to enough musicians now.
15:24 - Aaron (Host)
This music thing they told us it would be hard. I didn't believe them. You know what We've talked to. Enough musicians now. You guys have the most fun job on the planet, but probably one of the toughest, at least for keeping your head.
15:40 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, man, it's why we do it, because it's so amazing to do, but it comes at a price, for sure.
15:48 - Mel (Host)
Well, I find it kind of ironic that, like the things that like, OK, you put out this album and people listen to it and then they are like, oh my God, my new favorite song. It helps them through times when you are probably going through one of the hardest times of your life writing these things and that same song could mean so many different things to you and then to the listener, Like you know what I mean, Like you've got pouring your heart out because you need to and maybe it wasn't as fun as you would have wanted. But then someone hears it and it's like holy cow.
16:23 - Cris (Guest)
Absolutely. And I feel like, and I've thought that and and I know that it was a, that it was a good piece of art at the time, I and it just I just didn't feel like, um, I think, messing with the business of things with this particular piece of art at the time, I don't know, yeah, it was just you know whether or not that was a correct decision or not, who knows. But I got excited about doing this instead. But but, but yes, I agree with you, like that's why I found, you know, I still want to put it out because I feel like it was something that you know came from real emotions and therefore would translate to other people. So sure, that's what art is all about. So, you know, the business is the thing and the fact that I didn't put it out, sometimes I feel like like I, you know who knows, one of these days I told my manager, you know, I just want to like, put it out, that like, and not tell anybody.
17:18 - Mel (Host)
It'll just show up on the streaming platform one day, yeah, one day, yeah, and like you know, no, you can't do that, so we'll see so I can. You can do whatever you want.
17:32 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, you really can actually. Um. So with one of these days, you book the studio time six months in advance. You've got no songs, you've got nothing to bring with you. What do you do?
17:43 - Cris (Guest)
I mean, obviously I wrote the music, but like what, at that point, the the clock's ticking clock's ticking and I just had faith that I would do it and I just you know it was it's dumb faith. That's what she's kind of that to even like write one song ever. You know, you gotta like believe that you can do this thing.
18:07
And I guess I'd done it enough that I felt like I could do it and it was a good I don't know, and also the fact that Jerry Douglas wanted to work with me. I was like this is an opportunity that I can't squander. He's a musical hero of mine and how fun is that? So I just started trying to have fun again yeah I think that was a probably, you know, just just finding the fun, finding the joy in in what I was doing you know.
18:36 - Apple (Host)
I think that would definitely help a little like like like you know, like, okay, I'm gonna do this. You have jerry douglas signed on, you know who your band is and that's like a painting you're starting. You already know what colors you?
18:49 - Cris (Guest)
got what brushes you're using so you can lean into it yeah, absolutely, and, like I think any artist would agree that, like, sometimes those parameters can can push you to get it done quicker because you know, you know what, you know where you are, you know you know what lane you're in, you know what you're doing. Yeah, I totally agree. It was a good north star for the whole thing to just know that jerry was there, you know the dust was there and jerry who's somebody who you know is so deeply rooted in all these things that I was trying to pull from, but also has always been so creative and not traditional, like, so that was something I just felt like we were going to mesh so well and that, like, his kind of approach to music was exactly what I was looking for. So, yeah, it it just got me excited and so, like, yeah, I just got to work.
19:41 - Mel (Host)
Maybe like you're, maybe your subconscious knew you know because you put yourself out there.
19:46
You asked him, he didn't come to you and then you're like I'm gonna ask the dusters, and you did that, and then, like you had to ask everybody else that's on your album to join you. You know what I mean. Like maybe this was like kind of like your subconscious way of making you remember who you really are, because talking to you we were listening to the episode earlier talking to you five years ago, I mean you were on a real high, we all were, but you were. You could tell that you were very proud of yourself and I don't mean it in a superficial way. I mean like you were proud of your output and you were just like you were speaking highly about your parents and just your road there.
20:31
And clearly not everybody's life can stay on a, you know, on a 10 tier all the time, but sometimes, sometimes we pull ourselves out and we don't even know we're pulling ourselves out. You know what I mean. Like we're we're inching our way to make ourselves feel better. We may or may not know what that looks like, but sounds to me like getting back to your craft is what makes you feel like yourself.
20:57 - Cris (Guest)
Definitely, and you know I didn't know it was going to work. I can't say that it was like, you know, like it didn't feel great until I was doing it and like until like we were finished the record and like it was like, okay, wow, that I did it. You know, like it was I, I at any moment, and it was like almost in my mind, the fact that I had like even considered giving up the whole thing made me somewhat fearless because I'm like, oh, it doesn't work out, I was gonna quit anyway.
21:28
Wow, yes, gives you a little more gusto, you know, like at this point, you know, I'm just happy to to not, you know, be sad yeah, not be in that place anymore.
21:40 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, I could do other things you know Chris.
21:43 - Aaron (Host)
I think that, like part of the whole thing that you went through and I know a lot of us went through something like that I think it's a symptom of what we all went through during COVID. I think that's like it's a thing, that that's a how do I get this out without ruining myself. We, we got like it's trauma yeah, I guess that's the best way to say it.
22:13
That was a trauma something really difficult we all went through. Nobody was ready to be fucking stuck in their house for a year and a half or however long. We were stuck in our houses. We couldn't see the people that we loved.
22:25 - Mel (Host)
We everything was weird you literally couldn't make your living.
22:29 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, like, literally could not do that, like I remember part way through cove, maybe three or four months in, when I when, when it was like the two weeks thing was gone and things were just shut down, thing was gone and things were just shut down and like I went in to get dressed to work from home and like all these concert t-shirts in my closet and I'm like what is, what? Does any of this even mean? Like who is this guy right? What do I? What do I do? And just like huge identity crisis.
23:03 - Cris (Guest)
And you know, I think maybe that's if I had to give like a you know simple guess of like what caused my thing. I think it's just that, like, especially coming out of it where it was like, oh, now I got to go like be this guy again, like who is that guy? I forgot who he was.
23:20
Oh fuck Right. You know it's just, it's like and it's fucking hard anyway, and you know you don't make any. I'm not making any money, so which I have a family, so like what you know so do I want to do this?
23:37 - Aaron (Host)
do my god. And it's like you can't, you can't. I guess you could, but like who you are, I would imagine it's difficult to fake the funk and like get up there and be like, hey, good evening, you know, like you're not gonna fucking do that, and so the thought of going out there and doing that is probably like oh my god and no, totally, that's like that last record that I made.
24:00 - Cris (Guest)
It was like not a fun record, like I didn't put out, like you know, like it was heavy. Like doing fun songs was like not what what needed to happen, like picturing myself doing a barroom shuffle or something like just felt totally like out of character or like funky and like danceable. It was like I mean not to say that there aren't danceable things, but it's, you know, yeah it's just like the no, I need to like make my statement as a white heterosexual male in this country.
24:36
And you know just, I don't know, I overthought it.
24:38 - Mel (Host)
Maybe this is what I'm that this makes me think about. You know, like, when you get food poisoning, like it comes out of one end or the other.
24:47 - Cris (Guest)
Or both, or both.
24:48 - Mel (Host)
But it's got to come out. It doesn't stay in and maybe that record for you, like you just needed to get out what was in you, like it just had to come out, yeah.
24:59 - Cris (Guest)
I was so unsure myself, I think, the whole identity crisis thing, like I, just in the midst of writing it, just I I had lost something, I had lost an edge, I'd lost the joy as I say, yeah. So I think maybe that's that came through. But, like you say, maybe that one day, when I put it out there's, it'll resonate with some oh, no, no, no or you know something, and that's what it's all about. So it's there.
25:29 - Mel (Host)
It doesn't, it's not gone, it just uh it's still there, that's cool that you've got a little something in your back pocket for later. You know, and maybe the further away you get from it, the more you'll feel propelled to put it out there, because, man, we were all feeling like shit during, like like aaron was talking about that we same thing, like if you're not doing the same things that you've done and being around the people that you were with, it's not that they give you an identity, but you have something in like with them, in common and and something that we're all doing together, and you take that away and it feels like like like a lego world, I remember you know what I?
26:12
mean like, like this whole fake thing, and now you're rebuilding with what?
26:16 - Aaron (Host)
like I can totally remember like having the conversation with you guys of like what are we gonna do, what are we doing, what are we even doing?
26:24 - Apple (Host)
we're a live music podcast. There's nothing happening. What's?
26:28 - Aaron (Host)
gonna happen and and feeling like, why bother? And and but but we got like we realized that talking to each other and to you guys was therapy through all of that yes and like I just started being really honest with everything that was going on really quick. I'm like I don't know what I'm doing. This is fucking crazy, and everybody that we were talking to is like me too.
26:57 - Apple (Host)
Yeah, and and then all the all, all of you, all the music artists, were at home and and like needing to talk and wanting to talk and home for the first time, especially through the summer, like we talked to several people. It was like I don't remember the last time I was at home when during the summertime, during the summertime, when the peach trees were blooming and this and that and then it ended up being good.
27:23 - Aaron (Host)
You know know, chris, I think too, coming out the other side of that, any kind of adversity that we go through, especially mental health stuff, when you come out the other side of that or start to it, really does solidify who you are for yourself. I think, so Don't you feel like that man?
27:49 - Cris (Guest)
like you refigured yourself out on a different level yeah, and you have to trim the fat and, and you know, take more solid inventory of of your time and your space around you and and the things that are working on, the things that aren't. And yeah, 100 did that and yeah, yeah feels good, doesn't it?
28:10
it feels yeah it does while you're in it. You know things can feel weird, but you know, luckily it's like, you know you get, you get past it and you know it's like, it's like anything. We're still works in progress, obviously.
28:24 - Mel (Host)
Oh yeah, by any means, and I have my good days and bad days, but I feel generally in a better, better place was there any other stuff, um, during that time that like helped you to kind of get out of it or, you know, kind of feel more grounded?
28:41 - Cris (Guest)
yeah, um well, I started doing transcendental meditation.
28:45 - Mel (Host)
Hell yeah.
28:47 - Cris (Guest)
That was. You know, that's been a really nice, nice thing for me.
28:56 - Aaron (Host)
Who turned you?
28:56 - Cris (Guest)
on to TM. I came across it. I was listening to David Lynch speak about something and he's, you know, very, very into TM, tm and, you know, very involved in sort of pushing it, and just the way he talked about it and like what it did for him, I was like that sounds like exactly what I need right now and uh, and so I just looked it up and there's a center in baltimore, where I live, and I went there and met with the instructor and did the thing and he taught me how to do it. It's not a very difficult thing to learn at all and it's a pretty simple, powerful thing. Twice a day, 20 minutes. I don't exactly know what it's done, but it sure makes me feel better. It's, you know, I feel like just relaxed and the stress eases away and, and you know, I just start my day from a better place.
29:57 - Mel (Host)
That alone the fact that you feel better is that's all that needs to happen. If I say, hey, give me five bucks and you will feel better, you're gonna give me five bucks. You're not gonna ask how I'm gonna feel better, you're just gonna accept that, you know over, analyzing like what it's doing to me.
30:16 - Cris (Guest)
And yeah, exactly like when I don't do it, like if I get busy and I can't, I feel that I feel like a little off sometimes if I haven't done it so and uh, it's been nice doing it before shows like out playing these days, it's like right before I go on an hour before I'll I'll do it and it just you know who needs to drink anymore, wow that's right on man fuck, yeah, so you've also catch a buzz yeah, but there's something different about elevating yourself.
30:48 - Mel (Host)
Well, it's always fun catching a buzz, but I mean like in a clean kind of a way, it's like lasting and clearing for your mind. You can focus and center a little bit better.
31:02 - Apple (Host)
It's also for me, somebody who enjoys alcohol here and there when you're having that beverage with a clear state of mind already, instead of you know what I mean. When you're entering like okay, I got to have a few to get to the space, it's like you're already in the space.
31:17 - Cris (Guest)
Now you're enjoying a spirit, it's to catch a little buzz.
31:22 - Apple (Host)
Yeah.
31:23 - Cris (Guest)
Donning or dismissing whatever, but for me, yeah, that's always been what it's about, and you know, if you can control that, then sure.
31:33 - Aaron (Host)
You're good to go? Yeah, but there's a lot of us that can't, no, well you've heard, we all learn about them on the way.
31:42
Yeah, For those that aren't familiar with TM, I mean I'm no expert, I've done my research and whatnot, but it's nothing like it's not super esoteric. I mean I'm sure it is if you dug into where it came from or whatever. But like, basically you just go and they give you a mantra, right, and you just repeat the mantra for 20 minutes twice a day give you a mantra, right, and you just repeat the mantra for 20 minutes twice a day.
32:11 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, exactly, there was a whole sort of in you know, introduction. Initiation was really just kind of nice pleasant ceremony ritual you want to call it where he sort of gave me my mantra and, you know, eased me into the process of doing the technique of doing it and um and yeah, that's all it is.
32:30 - Aaron (Host)
It's it's pretty, it's pretty strange that it's so easy to do, but it works, yeah I've listened to um howard stern for years and stern is a huge tm guy and talked about the benefits of it and that's that's when I started like doing the research, I was like I didn't find out about that I want to know what this is man, yeah, it's, uh it's, it's pretty good.
32:55 - Cris (Guest)
I was talking to my friend, um, you guys know ryan montblue yeah, yes, everybody of mine and, uh, he's into meditation. We were talking, but he does a different kind. He's like it's like yeah, man, I should have gotten gotten into the TM 20 minutes twice a day. He's like I got to do like an hour or two. That's why I fall off. I guess I picked the right one.
33:17 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, you did.
33:19 - Cris (Guest)
We can handle that in our day.
33:22 - Aaron (Host)
I think that, especially right now, like the world that we live in is so noisy with, like, social media and TV, there's 9000 streaming services, and then you've got kids and a wife and a business and you got to play music and there's all this shit going on in your head.
33:40 - Cris (Guest)
And if we don't ever, if we?
33:41 - Aaron (Host)
don't ever take a minute to just like breathe and be in in ourself. All that stuff just gets so heavy and you know that's what was happening.
33:52 - Cris (Guest)
That's, and then like having to like try to write music and be creative with all that. Now be cool, yeah, be cool. Turn it into money you know it's it's, uh, it's, it's a lot. So you know, first step was to get my mind right. Second step, try to write some songs again. And now third step will be to try to be a zillionaire.
34:16 - Aaron (Host)
There you go. Yeah, good thought process I'm with you on all those steps.
34:23 - Mel (Host)
You know, I have to mention this thing that I saw with Rick Rubin, and he was talking about your. You know your craft putting pressure on yourself to make yourself have to succeed but it can also be debilitating. Sometimes. It can, of course, push you up to the surface, and we see a lot of that, but then on another side, it can also bring you down and take away that lightness and the love that you feel for that exact talent or activity. And he's like you know what, sometimes a job can just be a job. You can just make money so that you can do whatever else it is that you really love to do.
35:19
And I think people complicate it and try to make things that it's not. Like I have to make it with this or else, or else what. Like you know, I I was I would always fight with myself for the last, I would say, four years, because I'm not necessarily doing what I love for my job, my job, my lifestyle, absolutely I'm doing every I what I love. But I, I started to think about that. What does that mean? Why does it matter where my money's coming from, as long as I'm doing what I love in life? And I had to really think about that because it was, it was messing me up. I, when I, when we moved here from Las Vegas, I absolutely was in love with my career, I felt that I was helping, I felt like I was, like it was, I was, it was in the perfect, as perfect as it could be when I moved here and that was kind of, you know, taken away just by the nature of where we live and and it just gave me some peace that hearing him say that gave me peace about what our talents are, what we love to do and how we make money. They don't have to be the same thing, even if they can, they don't have to be and you don't need to put that extra baggage on yourself to succeed or not succeed.
36:37 - Aaron (Host)
It can be one in the same or not and I think, chris, I think you hit, hit the nail on the head, man, like if you're having fun doing what you love, the rest comes. I think the, the, whatever, whatever, the, whatever, the thing that's that's controlling it doesn't, if you're, if you don't yeah yeah, maybe it will, if you do yes, maybe.
37:03 - Cris (Guest)
It's your only shot really. And yes, I totally, totally agree with you and it's yeah, you know you try not to. I mean, I've always, always sort of gone by that philosophy, for better or worse, of just like you know, if it feels good to me, then everything's going to be okay. And you know, yeah it. You know, on a lot of levels it has been, and then you know there's other levels where maybe it hasn't been, and and uh, and that's. You know that's just the hard cold facts, but that's okay and but, but yeah, you know it's, uh, I still, like you said, it's hard to. I wouldn't even know how to fake it anyway. So I have to go buy, you know, something that feels good, and so it was kind of just finding that again, I guess was the, was the thing that that needed to happen.
37:56 - Apple (Host)
So I I was I have a question about what we were just talking about, a question about having fun. Uh, go going to make this album. Okay, you're laid out, you got jerry on board, you got your band, so you're now sitting writing these songs. You have a lot of guest appearances on here. I'm just curious, like when you're writing the songs, did you reach out to people before? Did you write these songs, like with lindsey, liu and Billy? How did that process work?
38:29 - Cris (Guest)
Um, no, I didn't. I'd say the only song that like I in my mind, I was like I would love a female, um harmony. It was lifetime. I don't you guys don't have a copy of the lifetime to go to the last single that we put out with Leanne Womack.
38:42 - Mel (Host)
Yeah.
38:42 - Apple (Host)
We heard that.
38:44 - Cris (Guest)
It was the one that I knew I wanted a female harmony on and it was. You know. It's sort of about, you know, being married and there's some personal references that I drop in there between me and my wife, and you know things like that.
38:57 - Mel (Host)
I love that song, by the way. I just listened to it on the way down here.
39:01 - Cris (Guest)
Thank you, thank you, but yeah, like we recorded that one and I said to Jerry you know, I'd love to get a great somebody, great female harmony, and he there was a couple of names floated out there, but then he's like, he knew Leanne, jerry knows that everybody called her and she, and she did it. And the Lindsay one, it was like, yeah, after we had or actually the Lindsay one was when we were about to record the song, I, uh, I, she was in town, she lives in Nashville. We were in Nashville and I told her I was coming to town and I wasn't sure how things were. You know, you never know what it was to answer the question. I didn't write the songs with them in mind, but it was sort of like song by song, as we felt we needed somebody, we called on people. Okay, and between between my you know, friendships and and jerry, we were able to land some good ones yeah, you got some heaters in there, man, you got some yeah, yeah, we got philly strings and mccrary sisters and sam sam bush.
40:04
Yeah, it's pretty incredible. We were about to record a song the next day We'd wrapped up, I think on day one or two and I said to Jerry I'd really love to have Sam come in and do, or somebody play mandolin on these two songs. That can really drive the groove. And so he called Sam and he'll be here thursday. So, yeah, yeah, got two songs with him. Yeah, man, it was, it was a trip for me. It really was to be in the same room with these guys. I mean that those are like literally my heroes, jerry douglas and sam bush. And you know, just to feel like I was on, you know I was able to to to play on that with that.
40:54 - Aaron (Host)
you know, on that level, and that jerry was liking my music and you know, jerry, you know it was sort of like the pat on the back I needed, I guess yeah, I was curious about that man Like We've had opportunity to Talk to some of our heroes and and it's, it's a trip to, to say the least, but to go into the studio with him. What does that look like for you? Like you? Is he as he's producing the album? Is he like? Is that like a director in a movie?
41:30 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, so yeah, that's a good way to put it. For sure, it's exactly what a producer does, and what he does is. He was sort of like hearing everything coming up with arrangements, coming up with who's gonna play, you know, adding little things on to you know things, little little tweaks here and there was great, I mean. And the way it worked was, as I was writing these songs, the the months leading up to the session, we were in, you know, pretty consistent contact on the phone and um, and then I flew to Nashville twice. You know, during the process I was like I don't really have any, you know, we, we booked something and then I really I was like I only got a couple raw ideas. He's like it's fine, you know, let's just come, you know, just come. So it was really just to come, hang out and, like you know, kind of kind of calibrate our, our vibe.
42:17
I guess you could say, and I just went to his house and we just hung out and had some, had some food, I played him what I got and he loved it. You know he's like good, I'll go write them. You know, go finish them. And cause there was definitely some some raw, you know, sort of half written things, but he liked where it was going and you know, so that was, you know, and then we did that again when I, when things were kind of more finished and we decided on some things. There were still some loose ends, though going into the studio I definitely pulled a few out that he hadn't heard. Um, you know, but but but yeah, and then you know when he, when we're in there, it was basically like he set up the room in, like there was, it was beautiful, like he set up the room.
42:58
It was a beautiful studio in Nashville Sound Emporium and Studio A in Sound Emporium there's like five little or four or five isolation rooms and then there's a big live room in the middle of it. He set up kind of an in-the-round thing. We'd come in every day and be like all right, what do we want to try? And we all sit there, you know, looking at each other and playing, and I would just kind of play through the song that we were about to do. He would stand, stand, you know, kind of above and observe and listen and we would, it would just work it out, and the guys would work out their parts and we would just win them. We'd all all right, you guys ready, let's go cut it. And we just went back and we cut it, mostly live, like you know, in our little stations, but you know 99 of that.
43:42
That record is live vocals and all which you know, something that I hadn't done a ton of, and and it was just flowing. Things were just sounding so good, everything was sounding good, and you know, I was cutting solos with sam bush in the room. Yes, yeah, it was like I said it's. It definitely, um, definitely was a healing healing in the studio going this team really works man I'm like.
44:11
I'm also like a fan the whole time too, just like what was happening, like even like the dusters and sam and jerry, and it's like you know, I still think of myself as like this kid in his bedroom back in in baltimore, like learning, learning guitar, and you know, listening to these guys on my cd player and trying to figure it out, so it was like it was a trip that's why you pinch me moment.
44:33 - Mel (Host)
You know what's medicine, best medicine.
44:35 - Aaron (Host)
Ever too like holy, but that's the, the that you have that perspective is why the music is true. Do you get what I mean by that?
44:47 - Cris (Guest)
hope.
44:48 - Aaron (Host)
So yeah, man no it's for real, like if you were like I'm the shit and these motherfuckers are lucky to play with me and you know I mean, that's a different story man you have to have a little tiny bit of that or else you'll just crack.
45:02 - Cris (Guest)
You know, I learned that from russell batiste. You know, um? You know russell, the drummer from new orleans.
45:08
He just passed away this year no funky meters oh, okay, yeah, yeah and he's played with george porter and you know just one of the one of the baddest new orleans drum of all time and I had the chance to play with him years ago. I was like in his band for a little run, which was we could have a whole other conversation about that but that was a total trip, but he was a character, to say the least. But uh, I remember it was like my first jam cruise and I was. I was just, you know, we were young and it was like my first jam cruise and I was.
45:36
I was just, you know, we were young and it was like jam room where, like all the kimox and you know, krasnos and people were all you know playing and I was kind of standing on the outskirts and russell, russell's, like man, you just got to go up there, unplug a motherfucker, turn up and tell them you're in the fucking house yes, everybody needs someone like that in their corner to pump them up I still hear that, yes, sit in with somebody or getting ready to, like, do something.
46:08
Yeah, I still get staged right, you know, get ready to play a big show. There's a big crowd and you know the energy is intense. Sometimes you just got to have. You know like the humble thing works, you know to get you to intense. Sometimes you just got to have you know like the humble thing works, you know to get you to that point. Sometimes you just got to put your voice on Like I'm motherfucking Michael Jordan up in this motherfucker.
46:23 - Mel (Host)
Yes, you got to punch your chest. You know a little bit.
46:28 - Aaron (Host)
I got JJ in my head that does that.
46:30 - Mel (Host)
You got to own your shit, man. Yes, Okay.
46:33 - Aaron (Host)
JJ, I got you. I hear her all the time own your shit hey, chris.
46:36 - Mel (Host)
What about the musical Sojourn in Porto? Have you done it yet, or before this upcoming time?
46:43 - Cris (Guest)
no, I've done it, matt Butler, with the Everyone Orchestra, you know, matt he lives in Portland also, so we bump into him sometimes awesome. Well, yeah, he, I've done a bunch of Everyone Orchestras and I love Matt and he's, he's, he's great. So we um, you know? Oh, hello there. Family just walked outside.
47:07 - Mel (Host)
Hey family, hi family, we're almost done yeah. If they want to we'd love to say hi, hi, how are you?
47:14 - Apple (Host)
Oh my goodness Adorable. If they want to, we'd love to say hi, yeah, we can see them. Hi, hello, how are you? Oh my goodness Sweet.
47:24 - Aaron (Host)
Your dad's amazing. You guys know that right, yeah, okay, good. All right, all right.
47:32 - Apple (Host)
Oh that's awesome.
47:35 - Mel (Host)
Right on, man, you're doing something good right there.
47:39 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, yeah, that's uh what I live for right there. Yeah, man, but um, yes, I don't remember what we were talking about, we were just talking.
47:47 - Mel (Host)
yeah, Matt Butler, Sojourn.
47:49 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, so um, so that'll be our my first Portugal thing.
47:58 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, super excited. I saw I've seen pictures from some of the other ones man that things look absolutely incredible.
48:01 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, just what he does with. You know, I can't think of any artist that we've talked to that's worked with him and done his everyone orchestra that hasn't been totally blown away and loved every second.
48:11 - Cris (Guest)
It seems like, as a musician, that'd be so fun to do it's like, yeah, it's like like we're talking about just finding that that joyful, fun place and in music and you get together with all these like amazing players that are like this shit in their own little circle, yeah, but they bring it to there and it's just like they're one of the, they're one of the people in the band and you get to like kind of have a you know, this whole new band for two, three shows. It's really cool, it's super, really great connections and friendships with some of the people that I've played with, yeah.
48:50 - Aaron (Host)
Well, maybe someday we'll get brought on a sojourn to document it.
48:54 - Mel (Host)
That'd be dope Hint hint, matt Hint hint.
48:57 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, are you? You gonna be touring oh yeah yeah
49:01 - Mel (Host)
that was it. Yeah, there was a lot of days.
49:03 - Apple (Host)
He's got a yeah, he's got a bunch of tour dates extensive, you coming out this way, yep yeah, yeah, we're gonna be out at the uh waterfront blues.
49:11 - Cris (Guest)
Uh, yeah, in uh like july 4th weekend right on yeah we're at high sierra, um, like actual july, you know, friday, saturday, so it was a plane overhead and then sunday we're um the waterfront blues and then we're also um, yeah, waterfront, yeah, that's a, that's like that sunday that week, and then we're out in oregon whole week. We're doing Seattle. I think we might be. Are you guys doing country fair? Yeah, yes. I might be there, chris.
49:46 - Aaron (Host)
Yes, I hope so have you ever been?
49:49 - Cris (Guest)
Never been Never been. But I love Oregon and I've had some really fun psychedelic times out there with some of those freaks and they're all some really good friends and I love them and, like we used to do this festival called the black sheep family we know black sheep yeah, black sheep all the time back in the day with my little band, the bridge, and we became the like 2 am to sunrise band.
50:15
Oh no, yes, I can imagine. Yeah, so, anyway, yeah, so, uh, I I there's. I guess I probably shouldn't say that it's definite, but I'm told that I'm possibly hooking up a country fair appearance somehow somewhere. We'll plug in a generator and figure something that would be great I don't there do.
50:37 - Aaron (Host)
Do you have my phone number, Chris?
50:39 - Cris (Guest)
I don't know if I do, but you can shoot it to me.
50:41 - Aaron (Host)
I'm going to put it in the chat right now.
50:43 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah absolutely.
50:44 - Apple (Host)
I'm curious too, because, listening back to the episode five years ago, how are your folks doing?
50:53 - Cris (Guest)
They're doing okay. My father's going through some health issues right now. That's. That's kind of a bummer. He got diagnosed with lung cancer, so that's been a super, super heavy bummer.
51:07 - Aaron (Host)
Oh okay, sorry man, we'll send some love that way yeah yeah yeah, it just made the country fair, made me think.
51:13 - Apple (Host)
I mean talk about like about, like Grateful Dead, lore and everything. The country fair has been going on forever and we got our first taste of it last year.
51:23 - Aaron (Host)
I'll tell you that after they kicked the public out on Saturday, there's a thing called the midnight show and it's all the performers from around fair performing for the people that are volunteering, because the volunteers don't get to see everything and I was. We're sitting in the middle of it and I was like, oh shit, I'm at an acid test.
51:46 - Mel (Host)
This is a 50 year long acid test totally so I yeah, shoot me your number, man. That's exciting to see that you might be out there. That's a really, really great place to meet for the first time.
52:01 - Cris (Guest)
I know, yeah, I'm sure we have some mutual friends, oh yeah.
52:05 - Mel (Host)
Oh yeah.
52:06 - Aaron (Host)
We're running the bookstore at fair this year.
52:08 - Cris (Guest)
So come by the bookstore and say hi, man, love that.
52:15 - Aaron (Host)
Is there anything that we didn't touch on that you want to get the word out on?
52:20 - Cris (Guest)
um, you know, I guess, uh, if, if someone's listening, you know, go listen to the new record. It's really good. I really, I'm really proud of it. One of these days is the name of the record, that's. You know, I still like it, which is yeah, that's important yeah it's been out forever in my mind because I've lived with it so deeply and like I've listened to it so many times that and I still enjoy listening to it it still makes me happy. So that's that.
52:47 - Aaron (Host)
That probably means it's pretty good did it take you time to get used to hearing yourself played back?
52:55 - Mel (Host)
still don't, you know, don't love it really, I just I listened at a different angle than most people just like you're hearing all the things of all the mistakes, and yeah, I'm so, but yeah, that's kind of hard because your voice is so powerful, man, I can't hear anything other than that like it's like dang, it's like the. You know the dolby surround from back in the day. You know, with city or was it maxell?
53:23 - Cris (Guest)
what was it yeah?
53:25 - Mel (Host)
maxell there. But yeah, just, I mean I don't know that you need this or not, but, chris, you're dope and you know your drummer friend was Like you do need to have that in you and you've earned it, to be honest, like you've worked for that to to be able to claim it, and so you know I maybe just remember that every now and then that you really have put yourself out there and have been a creative juggernaut and with a really powerful, soulful voice and and you're a family man too, and that's even better. That's like, that's like double worlds. You're working in both worlds. You know where this like troubadour kind of thing and at the same time, holding it down with these beautiful women in your life, and it's not an easy thing to do when you're in the same state, let alone when you got to be traveling everywhere. So I mean, I just I appreciate you and I appreciate your output and I just want to say thank you.
54:26 - Cris (Guest)
Thank you. That means a lot. That's really sweet and you know, sometimes, yeah, I feel like I just need you know. The old pat on the back is maybe that's what we all need. We do sometimes and there ain't no shame in the game, sometimes we totally need it and and I don't mind giving it the record there's a song at the end of the record called everybody's lost and I think that, like sometimes I it sort of sums up like you know, everybody, just you know everybody's fighting some little little little battle for sure it's okay like we're all a mess and see you're sitting there serenading us with, like literally, a condition we're all feeling yeah, yeah.
55:05 - Aaron (Host)
Well, that's the thing we. We think that we're the only one going through shit and the the joke on us is everybody's feeling it.
55:11 - Mel (Host)
I'm excited about this secret record. We'll just call it a secret record because that brings a little bit more excitement to it. So I'm excited whenever you feel like rolling that out.
55:21 - Cris (Guest)
I'm excited for that red carpet absolutely, I just sent you, I just texted you the uh, the link oh sweet, thank you we're gonna go listen to it now. Man, crank it up in the studio.
55:34 - Aaron (Host)
It sounds pretty good, oh we're excited I uh I appreciate you coming back on and hanging out with us and hey, man. I'm glad you're all right, man. And I'm glad you're through the other side of it. I hope I can give you a hug at fair.
55:46 - Cris (Guest)
Yeah, it wasn't all that bad. It was, you know, relatively speaking. There's people who have a lot worse.
56:03 - Aaron (Host)
But it doesn't mean, you can't keep keep ourselves in check, you know that's right, oh yeah, well, I really do.
56:07 - Mel (Host)
We'll see you there, man and uh, take care until then, sending you and your family love talk to you soon, man.
56:10 - Aaron (Host)
Thanks, chris, that's a sweetheart right there, those sweet little face yeah, he is glowing like his skin.
56:16 - Apple (Host)
Looks like he just got a uh skin treatment or something. He's like glowing and smiling that's it's hot that was fun the entire time. That was a whole lot of smiles. My cheeks almost hurt from just smiling out of happiness for him you know us to receive this.
56:32 - Aaron (Host)
It's so tough to live life, man. It really is. It doesn't matter if you have a billion dollars or you're homeless Everything from one end of the spectrum to the other. We all go through shit, and our shit is the most intense shit. Even on the scale of other stuff, it's not that bad or whatever.
56:59 - Apple (Host)
To you it is, it's yours. Yeah, and we all do. Some people think it's corny, but one of my favorite songs ever, michael Stipes everybody hurts that song it's amazing, it's fucking dope that whole album is dope.
57:15 - Mel (Host)
Our harmony was terrible. I liked it. I liked our weird ass harmony yeah especially singing that Everybody hurts.
57:22 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, man, going through any emotional upheaval or trauma or whatever is one thing, but having the balls to talk about it afterwards is a whole other ball of wax, you know the first time we talked to chris he was also an open book.
57:41 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, didn't know us from a freaking hole in the wall, didn't know anything about us and sat there and talked to us about psychedelics and his and talking about it with his children.
57:52
Talked about his parents like everything this guy is so giving of himself and even today, like I'm amazed at how vulnerable artists can be like it is still amazing to me in any regard to to put yourself on display can you imagine, like at your, if somebody called you from another store and they were like hey, mel, we want to talk to you about your life and what you're up to right now?
58:29 - Aaron (Host)
Be like what the fuck? Or Apple, like your company's, like hey, we want to spend an hour with you.
58:36 - Apple (Host)
We want to do an interview With three of us just to interview see what's going on, man?
58:41 - Aaron (Host)
That's a trippy thing. We're not the only ones that are interviewing Chris Jacobs. He's getting interviewed by relics and Rolling Stone and whatever, whatever, whatever. That's part of the gig when you're a musician, like people want to know about you and they want to know about your life and your art.
58:58 - Mel (Host)
We actually talked about that last time. He's like I don't know if people want to know about my dog or something and we're like yeah, we want to know about your dog.
59:05
But it's true, because these great minds that can like we were just saying a moment ago, he can narrate feelings that we have and we didn't have to say it. He we have and we didn't have to say it, he did. And so that's special and I think that everybody who's in a art appreciator recognizes that that's not an easy thing to do. It's a special thing to do and knowing about the person makes you feel like I don't know, maybe like you kind of know the bank code or something, or like you know you know, the secret entrance of something you know.
59:39
It makes you feel like you're part of it.
59:41 - Aaron (Host)
Well, I, I appreciate him. Coming back on the show man. Yeah, all of you, make sure you go listen to one of these days, new album, one of these days. It will be out on April 26th and I think this will be out after that. There's sit-ins with Billy Strings and Lindsay Lue, sam Bush, jerry Douglas, leigh-anne Womack a bunch of heavy-hitting cats on this album and what we have heard is pretty damn amazing.
01:00:11 - Mel (Host)
And we're going to go hear the rest.
01:00:14 - Apple (Host)
Yeah, we're going to go listen to the rest right now. One last thing, because it came up there at the end when I asked about his folks Everybody positive thoughts, love and light to Chris's dad. Yeah.
01:00:22 - Aaron (Host)
Yes that, and until next time take care of each other. Everybody Smile at a stranger Safety third Hydrate, and you know what? Go call somebody you haven't called in a while. Right now, like that friend that you always used to talk to and you kind of like have went your separate ways, not for any good, bad reason, but just like life got in the way and you don't talk that much, reach out to him and say, hey, I was thinking about you, man, what's going on, see?
01:00:48 - Aaron (Host)
y'all next week peace.