00:01 - John (Guest)
where are you guys in Portland?
00:02 - Aaron (Host)
we're in Portland oh, cool me too. Yeah, we're part of town.
00:06 - John (Guest)
Laurelhurst.
00:07 - Aaron (Host)
Oh damn, right on yeah we're over right by St Vincent's and Southwest. Southwest.
00:15 - Mel (Host)
West Hills area oh yeah, we scored, man.
00:20 - Aaron (Host)
We didn't know shit about Portland when we moved here and we ended up here and we were like, oh, this is, this is cool here, that's great, yeah, man. So, john, tell us everything about your life, from the beginning to now.
00:32 - Apple (Host)
Go, man. That's it From conception until now. By the way, we have been wanting to have you on for a while, so this is finally happened and very glad to have you. Yeah, man, oh good, awesome.
00:45 - John (Guest)
Thank you, it's a pleasure.
00:47 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, we, we actually have a mutual friend, frasco.
00:51 - John (Guest)
Oh yeah, love Frasco.
00:52 - Mel (Host)
He he really loves you too.
00:56 - Aaron (Host)
He turned us on to you a while back. We were driving him back to a show and he was sitting in the passenger seat of the car and I was like you know, frasco, what music do you listen to, man? And he was like I don't know, I don't really listen to music too much, I'm like busy writing it and stuff. I I do listen to john craig a lot, though. Yeah, so that's that's how we found out about you, john. Well, welcome to no Simple Road brother. Thank you, good to be here. Let's start with the new album, man with TK and the Holy Know Nothings. How did that happen? That's a hell of a thing you did there, man.
01:38 - John (Guest)
Thank you. Yeah, it was kind of a long process. I made a record in 2017 called no rain, no rose, here in portland that had jacob and tyler thompson, two members of the no nothings, who that band didn't exist at that point as far as I knew, but they're friends of mine from fruition. And then louis longmire I had known forever, uh, that member, sydney Nash had played with Shook Twins Taylor, I just knew from the songwriter scene great songwriter Right and then they started that band and it was really hot in Portland. Everyone was talking about it and was lucky to have them as friends.
02:19
And I had written this song during COVID called Loyal Rolled Me a J. That was more rocking than I could really put out on my own and I think they asked me to come in and sit in with them at a show they were doing. This was like a COVID type show, outdoors, spaced out like 40 people or something. But they had a bunch of nights and I came each night and I think I showed them that song the first night. It's really easy a couple of chords and we played it and it was really fun and they really did a great job and I think I said let's record this, and we did. And then I think it was either T-Tom or Taylor who said you got any more Liked it? And I said yeah, I think I do. And then um, and then then we have we. Just I started sending them demos and it all kind of came from there wow, and you just had them just in the bag waiting, or is that?
03:14 - Mel (Host)
yeah, is that normal to just have a bunch just waiting to go out?
03:19 - John (Guest)
I think it was the right time. I think I had just put out uh M Salt, which I think for me usually, like once the album comes out, all the songs that were kind of waiting around for me to be present start to kind of flood in. Not that I don't write during an album's mix cycle. I just I can't really focus. But then once it's like, it's kind of like when you're at the end of a relationship, you know maybe there's people that you would want to hook up with but you can't, I can't even think about that. But then as soon as you break up you're like all right, I guess I can.
03:53 - Mel (Host)
I got it. I can think about this now.
03:56 - John (Guest)
Really not the best metaphor. I apologize, but that's a great metaphor I like it.
04:00 - Mel (Host)
I think we all got what you were talking about.
04:04 - Aaron (Host)
I spent part of today going back through your catalog and listening to um Abby road lonely.
04:12 - John (Guest)
Oh, cool, thank you.
04:14 - Aaron (Host)
And I I'm going to gush a little bit, please excuse me, it was. It was like hearing those songs for the first time.
04:23 - John (Guest)
Oh, thank you. Yeah, man Um it you so much.
04:25 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, man, um it it. You know we've all heard the Beatles a trillion times and those songs are for a lot of us are ingrained in our DNA, and to have an artist take those things and strip them down the way you did and put your touch on it, it was really something special man so thank you. Thank you for that. I actually was like crying at work listening it reawoke the songs.
04:58 - Mel (Host)
It really did. It freshened them up and also scaled them down, which when you hear I mean, everybody loves the Beatles when you hear it you're like it's the perfect song. But then you sing it and then it's like this is a perfect song. It's really awesome what you, your, commentary, your the whole thing, the way that you have cultivated your career, is really fascinating. I love that it's not strictly just the music. Even though the music is so rich, you've got a lot of your personality in it and it really, you know, adds something to the whole entire package of what you bring as an artist.
05:38
Did you ever?
05:39 - Aaron (Host)
want to be a comedian.
05:41 - John (Guest)
Yeah, definitely, when I was a kid I was like the funny kid in school, way before I was had any promise in music and I and I didn't think that I would do that as much as I loved music, right. But I think when I started playing music I grew up in the 90s, you know, when music was pretty serious, I guess you know. I mean, I didn't, I didn't know of people like Arlo Guthrie or Loudon Wainwright or those guys until way later. Uh, I didn't grow up with that and so I started playing music and I just was very serious on stage with it. And then I think, um, I must've seen Arlo or or listened as one of those guys and I think I thought, oh, this is genius. And then of course there were many people that did that. I was not aware. That really helped me be able to combine the two, but that was the easier part. Not to say that being funny is easy, but bringing that in was less challenging than playing music. That was much harder for me.
06:43 - Aaron (Host)
You started off, you were a math teacher. Is this true?
06:48 - John (Guest)
That's true, it's more, it's it's become more lore than anything. I went to Santa Cruz for college. I did get a degree in math, which sounds impressive, but honestly, everyone was just high at that school. Every class was the same. You know, whether it was biology, they were like cells man. Yeah, math class was like equations, what, and so it was all kind of the same thing.
07:15
And so I got that degree and I was not. I was playing some music in town, but not successfully, and so I needed a job and a friend of mine was teaching in Watsonville, which is a town South of Santa Cruz. So I think I called some guy and I was like hey, man, I have a degree in math. And he was like great, come teach. And so I did teach, very briefly, a high school math class that was pretty relatively disastrous in the sense that I wasn't good and like, and I didn't want to, I didn't. I realized that when I got there I was like oh, I don't, I don't want to do this at all. Like you know, teaching is hard. You got to be a disciplinarian, you got to be a kind of a cop in some ways, and I had my long hair and I was like I don't know, so um I. That only lasted very briefly and then I started to tour around doing coffee shops and stuff after that.
08:08 - Mel (Host)
Where did your, like, the love of music, start for you? Was it way back when you were young, or was it a little bit older, when you were in college?
08:16 - John (Guest)
Yeah, for sure, I think it was so mystical to me. I grew up in Los Angeles but like in a sort of a square part of it neighborhood and, uh, there just wasn't a lot of people there was sorry, there was nobody playing music in my childhood and so, but of course, you know, this was the late 80s, early 90s, so music was very prevalent. Mtv and k-rock, um, oh yeah, yeah. So we were, music was very cool, but it was. It definitely felt like this mystical, untouchable art.
08:49
And my sister was really my older sister, very cool older sister who was older than me, so she was more of an 80s girl, so she was playing me a lot of Cure, smith's, depeche Mode, duran Duran, early U2, violent Femmes, all that stuff. So I really I just thought it was really amazing. And then it wasn't until I was 16, a friend of mine got a guitar and then I was like, oh, this is not, you can do this, it's possible. I didn't know you could. Just I thought you had to be like Beethoven and you know, have a gift from God and and be trained your whole life. It was really cool to my friend just was like, no, this song, this green day song, is really these two chords and I was like, wow, yeah.
09:32 - Aaron (Host)
So I mean you're teaching everything you learned at Santa Cruz, which is cool equations to surly high school students.
09:43 - John (Guest)
I'm like, yeah, they were not happy.
09:46 - Mel (Host)
You mean, they didn't love you?
09:47 - John (Guest)
I just think that I just think that would be the word teaching high school students because their full-on attitude and think they're grown-ups by then and we're like wow, oh for sure, and, mind you, I'm 22, oh so, like my maturity is probably, i'm'm probably like 15 years old, sure, and I like, yeah, they could, they could smell that on me for sure, and, like I said, peace necklace. I don't even think there, I don't know what my uniform was, but I was probably wearing, you know, a grateful dead t-shirt or something like. You know, I was very much something to make fun of, I'm sure, for an angsty kid.
10:23 - Aaron (Host)
So obviously you'd been playing guitar. It was it. It was it like a dream of yours.
10:27 - John (Guest)
At that point you're like I wonder if I could do the thing yeah, oh for sure, a very distant dream, like a incredibly untouchable, unfathomable dream, but just being able to, when I was 16, I remember just being able to play song like play songs sing in my room was really cool. I really was really happy with that. I didn't think more would come of that, you know.
10:51 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, and so I mean it takes a lot of balls to just like I'm going to sell everything and buy an Astro van and go for it.
10:59 - John (Guest)
Like what?
11:02 - Aaron (Host)
what was that?
11:04 - John (Guest)
Yeah, I don't know. I you know you probably have this sometimes when you look back at younger, your younger self and decisions you made and you're just really stoked that that person did that. I mean it was in Santa Cruz, it was happening. I mean I was meeting people who were doing that. You know what I mean, like to a certain extent, and I was around a lot of musicians and I remember my Aunt Gail really cool aunt of mine, who lived in Boulder. She was the first person to suggest that I like go on a tour. She was like, come out here, I want to hear you play. We have coffee shops, and I think she even said, like just book a few in between Santa Cruz and Boulder, which I did one summer and and I think I think, yeah, when I did that I didn't lose money.
11:55
You know it was in the early days, it was not that hard. It was about 40 bucks to fill that tank Right and I could the Astrovan, I could usually get to a town on one tank. So just needed food, which a lot of times the coffee shop would give you, and you could sometimes squeeze out an extra sandwich if you were nice enough and and you could all like I could sleep in the van, or people would often give me their couch very often and, uh, you know, between tips and a, a couple of burned cds, you know, wrapped in newspaper, it wasn't that hard to make 40 bucks a night. It really wasn't that hard, and some nights you'd make more and some nights the venue would actually pay you to be there, which was crazy back then, and so I didn't make money those first couple of years, but I was just not losing money and I was smart enough to know kind of how to navigate it.
12:49 - Aaron (Host)
I think that just gave me hope that I could at least keep doing that which I was really into. So when, when you're like you now looking back on that, did you think that like there'd be a john craigie team and a manager and a like all the fucking pr and all the stuff like oh, definitely, definitely not, and it took a long time of doing it to even think that that would happen.
13:09 - John (Guest)
You know, I think, uh, many people around me were having much more success, you know, as I, as I just kept trudging along, but I really not to say, if kids are listening not to say that you should have low expectations. It's good to believe in yourself, but it was nice that nobody around me was kind of like you're going to be great, son. You know, I just really didn't think I was, which allowed me to just be happy in every little thing. You know what I mean the first time I sold a CD, the first time someone wanted my autograph, the first time someone covered my song, all these little things you, you know, really were cool, even though they were small time. You know, they really, uh, each time I was like wow, I didn't think this would happen and, uh, that's been nice for me.
13:56 - Aaron (Host)
I mean that that right there is not to be too like woo about it, but that's living a life of gratitude.
14:02 - John (Guest)
Yeah, that's what that is man.
14:03 - Aaron (Host)
I mean, if we're not grateful for the little things and only the big things, life is a fucking drag.
14:13 - Apple (Host)
Totally yeah, yes.
14:15 - Mel (Host)
So then, what made you? At what point did you move down to Portland?
14:19 - John (Guest)
and, you know, start your career here and start doing, you know, music your career here and start doing you know music, yes, so I, uh, I was born in 1980. So if I look at things in like these sort of decade chunks, uh, you know the early 2000s, I was out of college and I was doing this coffee shop thing for about six years, you know, from about 2004 to 2010, and right around then is when things started to be just a little bit successful, like I would. I remember, right around 2010, I started to be able to like charge tickets for shows, not not everywhere, of course, but like California, colorado, oregon, washington. I started to be able to do that Just $5, you know, or house shows. And I remember my friends strip twins who I had met on the road, who were doing great. They moved to Portland and I just spent the next few years really kind of like coming through here a lot, staying with them, building like one of my better fan bases was here so I could, I could really like hang here and do well and and and.
15:29
So then in 2014, it was getting to the point then where there was enough success where it was actually like really not conducive to not live somewhere. You know I was out of the astro man. Life was becoming extremely complicated, like with merch and whatever checks being mailed to me like actual people you know, which is I had never been a problem before. I need an address, yeah, yeah, yeah, address stuff.
15:55
And so it just came down to where I could live anywhere, and I remember it was between Austin, new Orleans and Portland. Those are my three favorite cities at the time and seemed affordable for a musician, roughly speaking. But Portland just was the better one. It had the most friends. I'm a West Coast guy, was West Coast, and New Orleans and Austin are very hot in the summer. I didn't want to deal with that and I just didn't. You know, also, politically speaking, it was hard for me to wrap my head around a Texas or Louisiana life. So Oregon was just so welcoming, it was really nice, and so that's kind of what got me here about 10 years ago.
16:35 - Aaron (Host)
There's something very special about this place for certain people. We moved here eight years ago, we moved here in 2016 and uh from from vegas and yeah talk about hot in the summer and uh, just coming through here, before we ever even decided to move, there's a thing, there's a vibe here, something it felt like home. It's very strange, man, and uh, I've noticed that, for the people that pay attention to that thing and end up moving here, this place is really like, uh, nurturing for folks. Yeah, I think so.
17:17 - Apple (Host)
Yeah, it um yeah, in eight years we built such a friend group like way, way bigger than growing up our entire lives in Las Vegas. Like what we've built in eight years here has just been amazing. And then doing the podcast for seven years. The music scene here, as you know, is just amazing Every night of the week. I mean a lot of cities you can do it, but every night of the week you can go out and see something, see somebody, you know.
17:51 - John (Guest)
There's so much going on and we just fell in love with that and it and it keeps on getting better all the time. Truth, you know all three of you guys moved from vegas to here.
17:55 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, yeah, aaron and I are married and these two have been friends for 40 years this year.
17:58 - Aaron (Host)
We've been friends yeah, yeah, and this doing this was a total, like total fluke. I, my son, bought me a mic for Father's Day in 2017. It was like you know, dad, you guys talk about the Grateful Dead all the time. You should start a podcast. And I was like oh. I don't know. And now you know, eight years later we're talking to you. It's crazy, that's so sweet.
18:22
Yeah it's dope man Awesome. Years later we're talking to you. It's crazy, that's so sweet. Yeah, it's dope man awesome. Um, john, you know, traveling around and seeing the country the way you did and then moving up here, you've had the opportunity to see the musical community in a lot of places. How, how do you think that the community here in portland differs?
18:45 - John (Guest)
uh, well, one thing I always tell people is that compared to I mean, it's hard to compare cities nowadays everything's so uh broad and it's hard to generalize. But compared to a like a los angeles, a nashville, uh, even in austin and new orleans, something about portland, I don't know what it is there's no like competitive spirit and I think I shouldn't say that. So that's a big statement, but I don't feel that kind of thing. And I think because, well, because Portland doesn't have like the most amazing music scene, it has a great music scene, but it's not like a Nashville, la, where you couldn't just live in Portland and work every night. I mean, I guess technically maybe you could, but if you really want to be a musician, you got to go out there and do stuff and tour. So which I think is really good, because what I notice is everyone here is working, they're doing whatever they're doing, so it's just very supportive and it is. It isn't like you're taking someone's gig. I don't think that's like a thing in other cities. Think that, which is like a thing in other cities. And, and I think also, I don't feel this like desperation of someone being like I'm trying to get noticed or signed, because, again, that wouldn't really happen here.
19:57
Uh, it's not like a nashville or in la or new york, so it's just cool.
20:01
Everyone's just happy, supportive and digs each other, which is, and it's a good music scene, as they should, and collaborates more and, uh, it's easy to collaborate with people you know like and I think pagan church being a good example of that, that really was not something that we struggled over or I didn't. There was no ego stuff there. It was all for the greater good and those guys were so amazing and so supportive. Uh, to add to that, without any kind of, uh, ulterior motives and um, and I don't see that in in it's like this right balance, right. I mean, if I go to somewhere in south dakota, probably pretty supportive music scene, but not enough of one to like yeah, so to me, portland was right there in the middle, where it was like you can live here being a musician and there's great gigs everywhere. You still got to like work for it, but I didn't feel any of that, um, that negative energy, uh, or desperation, which is was hard for me to feel in other cities.
21:03 - Aaron (Host)
It's totally true. You hit the nail on the head. We we've seen a lot of it now and I've never seen a more like supportive, collaborative group of people Like nobody's, nobody's giving each other shit. No, it's just super sweet.
21:23 - Apple (Host)
Somebody needs somebody to sit in on any instrument. There's the.
21:26 - Aaron (Host)
Everybody's got a handful of people to reach out to and then sean mclean shows up, and then sean mclean shows up to everything with the saxophone so you said you said that you had met um shook twins on the road and that's the first time I'd seen you um.
21:44 - Mel (Host)
They pulled you out when they were at uh get down. I think it was last year.
21:49 - Aaron (Host)
Right.
21:50 - Mel (Host)
That was, first of all, so awesome. You said you met him on the road. Can we hear the story, cause they're awesome, so awesome and yeah for sure If I ever write a book.
22:01 - John (Guest)
You know this would be a very pivotal chapter of when I met them I was it's 2007. I had been doing it for about three years. Like I said, very randomly across the country, mostly coffee shops. A few towns would have someone really sweet who would put on shows for me still usually free and like no money, but they would be nice enough to say like, hey, I'm going to like throw a night, there'll be a bunch of acts on the bill and you'll play half hour. And there was a guy named Patrick in Spokane, washington, who would do that for me and one of the trips in 2007, he said hey, I got this band you're going to open for. They're called Shook Twins. They're two twins from Sandpoint. I think you'll like them. I think you'll like them.
22:46
And yeah, we did. We played a winery and not many people were there. They were just a duo back then and they were just so fun and sweet and I loved their set and they were nice about mine. And just very briefly after the show I think they drove back home but we just chatted a little bit and and really hit it off and I think they said something like you got to come to our town, sandpoint which, like, if you know, when you're that type of musician, someone just says you got to come. You're like I'm there, you know. Fine, I got, yeah, I'll go, whatever you say. So I think it wasn't that long.
23:22
Probably a month or two later they had set up a little show for me in sandpoint and, uh, I think they had maybe learned some songs of mine and they got up and sang with me and I knew their songs. I think I played some guitar and and just it was very. I was sort of raised by two sisters and my parents were working a lot. I have two older sisters, so I think something about the two of them I just immediately sort of was drawn to that kind of support. Yeah, that dynamic, yeah, yeah, it was like right away, it was sort of a new kind of family, not to mention that the town of Sandpoint is so wonderful and their extended family there is so great, and so, yeah, I think we just kept on touring together. And then that summer of 2010 that, when they moved here, uh, then I really got close because I was just always coming through and staying on the couch.
24:15
So that's awesome, what great they've been from the get, from that moment just been. You know, some of my biggest supporters and biggest like uh, uh. You know, there it's, it's, uh. It's hard to think of what it would be like if I had not been there that day in 2007.
24:31 - Aaron (Host)
Wow, it's a trip to like we've been talking about a minute ago. Like you look back on your life and there's these like pivotal vignette moments that happen, that like change everything. You could see where the road split from that moment on and you look back on those things. It's pretty mind-blowing to see.
24:51 - John (Guest)
And it's even more mind-blowing to find people that are in your corner from the jump yeah, yeah, yeah, it's amazing, that's yeah, it's like, uh, such a gift and and we all, we all have that. You know, and uh, in this now sort of world where it's very indie and you spend a lot of time, you know, in the beginning, doing yourself, those kind of connections are everything, yeah, for you so, like, how is it?
25:22 - Mel (Host)
I mean, it sounds like your stuff has been indie from the beginning and now, um, it seems like the music industry has gone a lot more indie in the sense where, like you know, not a lot of people are getting like signed to labels and have all this money to back you and create these albums. So how, like, has anything changed for you personally since that kind of you know, the shift to like streaming and all that stuff?
25:47 - John (Guest)
Yeah, that really helped me a lot. I mean it's funny Cause if I were, if it's, if I was 20 years younger now, just starting now would be such a different reality for me Not to sound like such a when I was a kid we all have that.
26:04 - Mel (Host)
I do it all the time.
26:06 - John (Guest)
But if you, if, if I were to say that my career started at 24, which is there's a lot to, that seems pretty basic 2004, yeah, none of that stuff existed.
26:18
And so, yeah, part of my attitude of like I said where I was, like I didn't plan on anything big happening was just because you didn't really need those kinds of things like a label and and so, yeah, I didn't feel defeated by it, but it just really seemed not possible and so, but it was cool to let, to see all that stuff sort of happen as I was going.
26:43
So I don't remember when CD baby started, but that was cool, Like just the notion of like being able to tell my fans hey, if you want to buy my CD, here's where it is, and then of course they would mail it to you and stuff like that. But that was, that was a big deal, because before that the only way someone was going to have my CD was if I, they bought it at my show at the coffee shop or if someone burned it or whatever. You know what I mean. I mean, but and then the streaming thing I remember was so crazy, because in the early days the first one was pandora, if you remember that was the first, yeah totally thumbs up yeah yeah, and pandora, you couldn't, just, you had to be accepted by them.
27:23
They there was like you couldn't just like give them your music and they would put it on no matter what, and I remember it took me a couple times of being rejected by pandora until they finally got me in. Now, of course, being on pandora wasn't like being on spotify, it was still more complicated, but I started to watch. You know that notion of somebody being able to, to check me out for free, if you will, as opposed to having to buy it. And then, of course, um, one of the things I was talking about about sort of like 2010, the shift of being able to sell tickets. Spotify was right around the corner. Maybe 2012, I think, when that hit and that was when everything changed, because what would happen then is you'd go to a town that in the, in the earlier days, it was like I'd have to grind to boise play to two people. Then those two people would turn into four people, and four to six, you know. But all of a sudden, now on spotify, I show up to maybe minneapolis, and maybe I've never been there before, and all these people are there because they were able to, because there's a big difference between your friend calling you and saying, hey, should check out this guy's music, and they're like, ok, I don't know how to do that, as opposed to here's a link to a free way to check out all of this guy's music, and that was. That was a game changer.
28:40
And I know a lot of musicians complain about streaming and I'm not. I'm not disparaging that. Not, I'm not disparaging that, but for me, because I never came from a place of wealth before, that uh, it's really like was was a huge game changer for me and basically made it that people could know who I was without any help from it. That was before I had a manager, before I had anything. You know, I was just a guy who played guitar and drove around and still, all of a sudden now I'm selling out you know little 100 seat rooms in san francisco or whatever, but mostly because of that but when that happens to you, that's got to be mind-blowing.
29:16 - Apple (Host)
All of a sudden like, oh my god. Then, and I'm sure too, when it got to that point to like, social media probably played a big yeah part in getting word out there there's some of that too, for sure.
29:28 - John (Guest)
But, like the first time I went to europe, I remember thinking nobody's coming to this, these shows, it's impossible. And and you know, people would come and and I would ask them at the merch table, like what? And it was 99, spotify, maybe one percent, somebody yeah, or streaming, or whatever.
29:46
Yeah yeah, yeah, that's, that's wild yeah, it's, and that's something that I think that when someone is complaining about those streaming services, I just try to like remind them about that part of it and also remind them as a consumer of music that we all are. How many things have we discovered because of that, versus what in the days before? You know, my life before streaming was definitely way narrower. You know what I mean. Like, oh yeah, and also it was just like, well, I'm not going to listen to that weird bob dylan album because I don't want to buy that, because I got out.
30:20 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, I think we were all like I'm. I'm nine years older than you, so, like um, I think we were all in our lane a little bit more.
30:31 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, we were more genre, like you know, based as far because, like we weren't gonna go unless you were really musically inclined to like yeah, if you were adventurous yeah, exactly, but you kind of like, oh, I listen to pop or I listen to r&b, and you just kind of didn't get out of those lanes until you're right. Streaming kind of brought this whole new stew of things to try.
30:54 - Aaron (Host)
I remember I don't know what year it was, it was early 90s. I was, you know, hardcore deadhead fish and Grateful Dead and grunge came on the scene and it was like this new, brand new, shiny, amazing thing. And the only way that you would find out about stuff like that was either your buddy would say, hey, have you checked out this band, Nirvana or whatever, or do you listen to the alternative radio station in your town and they happen to play it, and then then you found out about it. So I I see a hundred percent what you're talking about and I the conversation around the streaming and all that I think is more about people getting paid than, yeah, find being found out about. But you have to look at the thing holistically and say what is it doing?
31:50 - John (Guest)
for my career and my ticket sales yeah yeah, yeah, it's complicated, for sure, totally it is. Uh, it is multi-layered, and I'm sure different people before us had different struggles like that. I don't know what. Who knows when you first could start copying cassettes.
32:06 - Aaron (Host)
I don't know if that was, I don't know yeah, yeah, um, you know, growing up in california you I read an article today that you had done it uh said that you're, you know, your family was kind of square. And then your parents like it was the, what was it? The kingston trio was the thing.
32:35 - John (Guest)
And even that was rare. You know, that was something that my dad liked, but it was not. Even I would have loved to have heard Kingston trio every night, but it was a very. I could probably count on one hand the times that we sat and listened to that. But I really clung to that because my parents were just busy, busy, and I think of that generation music was just not the thing it was in. And I remember my dad. He also liked the doors a lot, but I think it. He just really thought it was. They were cool. But then probably one time in my life we sat and listened to light my fire, you know, but it was enough for me, like that's all I needed, and then I would go and I found my way to the doors and stuff. So anyway, I cut you off. I apologize.
33:13 - Aaron (Host)
No, no, no, no. I'm just curious about like have have. Are they around to see your success?
33:18 - John (Guest)
That's a great question. My dad passed away in 2021. So he saw some good stuff and, uh, and my mother's still around and she I think music is a weird thing and a weird job, but yes, she has. I think, probably the most significant for them because they were. They were a little hard on me in my twenties because really I was. I spent about six years of my twenties. For me, I was. It was great, but I was not you, you know making much money and it was not looking good. You know what I mean.
33:49
Like I, yeah, like, I said I was watching, yeah other musician friends of mine, shook twins brett, den, and you know we're like doing the grind, and then stuff was happening, things were building and I was like playing the same coffee shop every time I went to boise for six years to the same amount of people.
34:05
You know what I mean give or take a few but so I think my parents were kind of like, oh gosh, and uh, they live in los, they lived in los angeles and the shows there were pretty rough, because la is a rough place if you're until you start doing pretty good, but early days, la is brutal, you know, and so, but I think in 2017, I I got that Jack Johnson run, which was really epic, and they came to the Santa Barbara bowl show, which was, which, of course, was like extremely sold out, cause that's Jack's, you know, that's Jack's one of his hometowns, and so that was a significant night for them to be like, oh, this is happening, something's happening here, and and it's a long, you know, at that point, we're talking 13 years of them watching me fail, if you want to call it that and and so there's a really cool picture uh, it's in another room, but it's my dad and I sort of he's shaking my hand and he's got this big smile.
35:01
My sister framed it for me because she's like. This is the moment when he was like it's okay, you're gonna be okay, but what about your?
35:08 - Mel (Host)
sisters, cause they were the ones that introduced you to. You know music and all that. What was their take on seeing you like in your twenties? Like you know, hoofing it, and then coming out of his mind. Like what are you doing, little bro?
35:21 - John (Guest)
Yeah, they were so nice. Sisters have always been the best. Like I said, they were kind of the surrogate moms when my said they were kind of the surrogate moms when my parents were out working and so they've just been so supportive the whole time and they were just like that kind of sweet supportive. Where they weren't going to be like how our ticket sales, they would be like I'm listening to your album so much or, um, this is a great song, and when I would play in Santa Barbara where they live, you know, they'd come out always front row and and so they were very excited. I think everyone was very when the Jack Johnson stuff, when all that stuff started happening, they were just like, okay, I'm sure they were like we don't have to feel sorry anymore.
35:58 - Mel (Host)
What was it like receiving that call On a personal level, like I'm sure you all you clearly knew who Jack Johnson was and loving his music, like I mean, that's like after busting your ass.
36:10 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, yeah.
36:12 - John (Guest)
Yeah, I mean, that's another. It would be another significant chapter in the book and I won't believe it's a very long story, but the short version is that he heard one of my live albums that had come out in 2016. Just randomly, it's a. It's a funny story. Actually, somebody gave it to him a friend of his that had seen me at like a tiny house concert, and he told me he was like I was not going to listen to that cd because, as you know, if you're jack johnson, people are probably always giving you cds. But, just by chance, he was on his way up to do a road trip with his wife through big sir and they were in the rental car out of service, spotify not working nothing on the radio, and his wife was like I guess we could put this in. You know, and it just also just so happens that Jack is really into that kind of like Arlo, todd Snyder, greg Brown storytelling guy, so so I think it really he was excited and I think he was like this is like a total nobody, which at that time in 2017, I was doing okay, right, like I could. I was playing like mississippi studios, you know, selling that out. I was doing all right for me. I was doing amazing, it was beyond dreams.
37:24
And then, through sort of a funny backwards way, he got me out to oahu to perform a show with a show that some of his friends put on that he came out to. So we hung out at that time this was February of 2017. And he was so sweet to me and I stayed at his house and everything, and it was very surreal. Of course, I knew who he was and his keyboard is Zach Gill, who I don't know if you guys know A-L-O. Oh yeah, yeah, zach is is plays with Jack, and so there was some some degree of separation there. Jack didn't know who I was, but I knew a lot about him and I knew he was a good guy. But, yeah, it was really good timing because I think a couple of weeks later, his managers were like leaning on him to pick his support for that summer. And again, the the timing he only tours every three or four years, so if I had met him a year later, it would have been years to wait and so, yeah, the call was funny because he, I remember, I remember he called me.
38:20
It was early for me, you know, like 8 am or something and he's in hawaii, so he must have been up really early. But he said something like, um, what's your summer looking like? And of course I had stuff booked. I'm not stupid, they were small things, but I had it. And I said I got a few things booked. He's like, well, you're going to want to cancel them. And it was like I was like, well, you know. And then he starts rattling off.
38:49
He's like the gorge, uh, the creek in berkeley, santa barbara bowl, and I was like wow looks like I'm cancer and yeah, and I you know, I had a manager at that time, um, and I did not have a booking agent. But uh, I you know, I told him I said, you know, I have some agencies here, we'll, we'll go through it all, but it all worked. They were so nice to me that summer and it was really it was. It was crazy and I think, um, you know, like out of a movie kind of thing, yeah, well, did you like I mean having that experience?
39:14 - Mel (Host)
what did you take away from that experience as far as like maybe, maybe something from the business, or maybe musically, being with him each night?
39:23 - John (Guest)
yeah, jack was, he's so wise and of course he and I have very different trajectories, right like he did not grind it out. You know not, this is no insult, like no knock on him. He's, he's so wise and of course he and I have very different trajectories, right like he did not grind it out. You know not, this is no insult, like no knock on him. He's, he's wonderful and there's no reason he should have. But so I, maybe, I like to think he learned something from me also. Yeah, but we talked a lot and he was just really wise and I think what was really challenging that that santa barbara bull was the first show we did together and I, you know, I said what do you want me to do? You know, I said he said don't just be like. You are on the on the album and I said, yeah, that that works. Like that was 180 people in mississippi. This is, I mean, santa barbara bull was like on the smaller end, that's only about 5 000. I think we were doing mostly 20 000, 18 000.
40:11
Yeah, and you know, he was just sort of saying like just don't worry, like you know, look to see who's listening. And actually his bass player gave me really good advice, because every night there'd always be a really packed like front little pit and you know that was probably a thousand people maybe. But you know, his bass player said to me he's like that's your coffee shop right there, play to the people that you can fathom. Because then I remember the night at the gorge 22 000. You know, you can't even see the people, it's insane. And so he's like, just just play to these people, they'll, they'll get it, people in the back will get it, and. And so that's what I did and I think, uh, I think it worked. You know, it worked. Okay, it's hard, it's really hard to play to those kind of people. On the other hand, it's also really easy. They're so excited. If you just walk out there and you go, what's up, santa barbara?
41:02
the place goes insane they're waiting to scream something you literally like it was actually kind of complicated to do bits because, um, everyone, it's something about, I think, human nature and and being around that many people, you're just so electrified that little things will spark it off, and so I would. I had a little bit taught, you know, jokingly, about like how I minored in grateful dead at santa cruz right, it's a dad joke, but it's something Supposed to get a laugh. But by saying Grateful Dead to that crowd, they would cheer instead of laugh. You know Things like that. Or maybe I'm just telling a bit where I say a city name and just saying any city name to a crowd, that big people cheer, and so it was interesting to navigate.
41:45
I really couldn't be subtle. I had to like really deliver the lines like you know. I I felt for like people who are comedians to those kind of like stadium crowds really have to be like the bill burr and like the yeah, that that. That you know you can't be a little stephen wright and you know and sort of, uh hey, how's it going?
42:02
you know it's hard and so um you got to use your voice right like literally you can't give him an inch yeah, and I remember I played the gorge and then we had a week off and I went over to the east coast and I played a little house concert, you know, just out of someone's garage and and I just it was nice. I was like, oh, this, I missed this, this is really good and I not again. Not, I'm not knocking those giant, but it was a great learning experience and if I ever get to that place again I'll know how to handle it better. And I got better at it throughout the summer. But I am very grateful for the manageable crowds, you know.
42:43 - Aaron (Host)
In the years that you were slugging it out playing in the coffee shops? I mean, and I'm sure this might be a dumb question, but did you ever?
42:54 - John (Guest)
no, not really. I mean, I think I felt like I should a lot, you know, and I remember there were times in my 20s, uh, where I like had a girlfriend who was like really nice, but also kind of like, what are you doing? You know, and you know it's, it's hard to be like, hey, baby, I'm gonna leave for two months and come back with probably zero dollars, but I won, won't lose any. You know, I think there were times where I thought am I stupid? Am I crazy? Am I, is this sad that I'm doing this?
43:24
And of course you have sometimes you just really have those soul crushing nights where you would like. I remember, like certain nights where there just is nobody there you know what I mean. Like the barista is not in the music room, maybe, and there's just no one and you don't know what to do. It's very awkward and maybe you really thought someone was going to come and so those nights were really hard. But, like I said, I didn't expect any better.
43:52
So if every night was like that, maybe I just would have. It wouldn't have been sustainable. But there were enough nights of something that kept me going and made me feel like it's just music is so weird because in the beginning really, it's not that it's selfish, but it's like you know no one's asking you to do this right, nobody is calling up on the phone. We need your music. So it's a little selfish in that you're like I gotta do this, but you don't. It's really nice when all of a sudden somebody wants you to do it. It feels it feels like I gotta for the people you know.
44:27 - Mel (Host)
It's like they're asking for it, we know wyoming.
44:30 - John (Guest)
It's like baby, I gotta go, you know. But that matters. It's really hard when, when nobody, when you, or at least when you think nobody wants it, so like least, when you think nobody wants it, so like what do you do?
44:40 - Mel (Host)
and and during, like, literally during those times where you can't see the barista, where you're thinking like, oh, my homies were gonna show up, it's flat and you're, it's you and like, one or two people like, or you and you what like how do you get you know? Is it like a practice at that point, or do you still kind of go along with the show?
45:02 - John (Guest)
it would depend. I mean I would. I'm not crazy, I wouldn't be up there like doing bits to no one and stuff. But I mean maybe that's not crazy, but I would feel crazy to me, I would have lost it. I also I really wasn't doing that many bits back then.
45:14
Anyway, it was too awkward in a coffee shop with somebody yelling out like ice latte, you know. Uh, if there was nobody I would sometimes just wait until somebody came, unless there definitely were times where they're like we're paying you to play. If there was a place that was like a bar, is it better? So I did that plenty of times. Um, if there was one person, that's. That was plenty for me. And I mean I had some really nice moments like that. You know where someone's in the corner and maybe they're working or they're. At least you know they're happy about it. I would just try to play to the mood softer songs in that sense. And there was also times where, yeah, I'd rather not play to an empty room, because then someone walks in and again they think you're crazy, like I'd rather not play to an empty room because then someone walks in and again they, they, they think you're crazy, Like what's he?
46:01
doing. Yeah, it's kind of repelling. So often I would just chill until people came and there probably were nights where the barista was like yeah, you, you don't have to do this, and we would just sit there and talk and I haven't. I remember nights like that, too, and them asking me kind of like this, you do better than this normally. I remember nights like that, too, and them asking me kind of like you do better than this normally. Right, this isn't it. Oh, yeah, last night, you should have seen it.
46:21 - Mel (Host)
A thousand people. Dang John, you should have seen me at the gorge. Yeah.
46:27
You just have a really good attitude about all of it, about the industry, about a slow upcoming, about playing to empty rooms, about your parents, you know, not understanding right off the bat, like it really reflects in your music. It really does. Like you know you, until you meet somebody you can only assume who they are. Um, when it's a musician they're pouring their heart out but but still that's them emoting. You don't really get to know who they are. But talking to you and listening to your music you really do kind of get a sense of like there's this positive, um, you know soul that really writes some really incredible music. Like, honestly, your lyrics are beautiful and like fun to chew on and you've got really good musical vibes, like just it's a really beautiful pace and it just it feels good. It's like going getting into a jacuzzi or something like it's a good experience.
47:28 - Aaron (Host)
You know, it's always cool to like you hear the music, but when we meet the person and the person matches the music, because it doesn't always, doesn't always happen, but when the person matches the music.
47:39 - Apple (Host)
It's a cool thing yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's a good segue to my question, because I was wondering to being such a like accomplished, good songwriter, singer and everything, have you been approached by like bands wanting to pick you up as a singer?
47:54 - John (Guest)
no, that's never happened. That's very sweet of you to ask, okay, I'm just wondering, yeah because a lot of band.
47:59 - Apple (Host)
You know, that's one thing a lot. There's a lot of good bands out there, but sometimes they don't have a good front man well, you're talking about the jam band world there is no good singers.
48:10
Let's be honest, man. That's kind of. That's why I was wondering like hey, man, you're really good, but I mean I could see that'd be hard for somebody like you to do, to leave like what you do, doing it for yourself by yourself, for your fans to like go join a band and then have to deal with all that like yeah, that's very, that'd be very sweet.
48:28 - John (Guest)
I mean, I sometimes have fantasies of like a csny kind of thing. You know, oh yeah, picking out three friends and, or you know, and bonnie light horseman I don't know if you know those guys, but that's a newer anais mitchell and um eric from fruit bats. They, they have sort of a little super group. That's great, it's. It's not so common these days but, um, that's something I kind of I kick around in my head sometimes, but it's harder these days. I think everyone's really just trying to do their thing and make it work. It's just not, as we're not all like millionaires on warner brothers who are just have the. Yeah, you know you could throw around on an album, but um, but yeah, no one. But that's sweet if you'd ask.
49:06 - Aaron (Host)
No, that's not that'd be cool if we were all millionaires on warner brothers. I'm not, I ain't on it, they're just millionaires to go get you know paul banzai be like let's get john and keller williams and come to the house and play
49:19 - Apple (Host)
daniel moore we'll put these guys on stage together.
49:23 - Aaron (Host)
Uh, what was the name of the jam band that you were in, john?
49:26 - John (Guest)
I can tell you, pond rock, p-o-n-d-r-o-c-k. And it was very much of the time. Santa cruz we formed, I think in 2000, 2001, which was, like, it seems to me, a peak of that wave of jam, at least in the West Coast. It was everywhere and I did not know how to jam. And I remember I was living across the street from this guy, jay, a year older, very cool, and he came over one day and he said something like oh, we had this halloween party planned for. That was like three days away and our band canceled. And I was like oh no, what are you gonna do? He's like. He's like can you guys come over tonight? Maybe we'll just like try something out?
50:10
And I was from the la mindset of like you got to have songs and stuff, and we get over there and he starts saying something like all right, this song is like a to g, and it was me and my friend on guitar. And then there was a drummer and bass and and I he said, all right, john, just you, you like play around in the a major scale and so I'm over there ping pong, you know like. And then at some point I looked up at him. He was like all, right now, leo, you do that. And leo did that. And then he took like he's like I'll do it. And you know, 15 minutes later we stopped the song and then he goes all right, this one's D minor. And just like, jet up, jet up, you know. And then like same thing. And I remember he said like this is what we'll do on Friday. And I was like people are gonna hate this. And I remember, like we get to the party and people are like, so you know, it was Santa Cruz. At that time people were out of their minds like, and I just looked and I was like, can we do this again? And he's like we can do this every weekend, if you want. This is Santa Cruz. That's what happened.
51:13
We, of course, like we eventually wrote songs and stuff like that, but it really wasn't much more complex than that. It was really baseline jam and I do I like to tease Pond Rock. They were great guys and but we were not very talented. I remember one time after graduation we tried to give it a go in the real world and it wasn't going, you know. And I just remember, at one point Jay turned to me. He was like you know what our problem is and I was remember. At one point Jay turned to me. He was like you know what our problem is and I was like what he's like? Someone's gotta be good in a jam band.
51:44
I was like yeah, someone does and he's like and none of us are good. I was like you're right, none of us are good, he's like, that's our problem. And then we broke up.
51:55 - Mel (Host)
Are you into jam music at all?
52:01 - John (Guest)
You know, I think I have a soft spot for the like the things from that era so obvious, obviously, the dead, which I think is a much more complicated thing than just a jam. Yeah, yeah, um, I'm trying to think what else was at that time sound a lot of sound tribe. We were going to the slip. Um, uh, fish from that era is great, like a lot of stuff that I was really getting into from that era. I can still kind of it's nostalgic for me, but I you wouldn't find me listening to like a modern jam band. Nothing, with all due respect, I'm a lyrics guy and I think in general a lot of the jam bands that's not what they're putting their energy on, so I don't fully engage all the time, but not to say that they don't have that, or you know, there's a lot of great jam bands out there.
52:44 - Mel (Host)
I would yeah, so what kind of songwriters are you listening to now?
52:48 - John (Guest)
Oh man, so many uh, these days. Uh, I'm so blessed to have just so many great songwriter friends. You know, like I um with between Isaac off and off, and this guy, dean Johnson, who I'll be touring with this summer, cassie Velaza, bella White you know shook twins and I just met this guy, lee Bolabek, who I've been really into. He was at a festival and it's just really goes on and on. So that's really awesome time right now. I think in the songwriter world it's really kind of exploding and I think there's a good market for it. It just seems like people can make it go.
53:26 - Aaron (Host)
Well, I think that the thing with singer-songwriter is it's an emotional thing on a different level than jam music or pop or whatever. It's a person-to-person connection with the lyrics and the way the world is right now and the time that we're in.
53:44 - Mel (Host)
We need that connection with other people man more than ever and it's important, it's, it's uh yeah yeah, I was just gonna ask um about cascade, because cascade equinox is coming up and you and the Schick twins are going to be. Is this like a joint set, the whole set, or are you yes?
54:03 - John (Guest)
they have. They have their own set. I think on the Friday I'll be coming up just to watch, and then Saturday we have a joint set, which we we have done now the past um three or four summers, either at Topaz or I think. Last summer we did it at the? Um, uh, the one McMinneman's that's a little farther west Grand Lodge yeah, and it's great, yeah, and I've been touring a lot with their band this summer, so it'll be all real, uh, real family, and we do a lot of collaboration stuff anyway, and so it comes really natural to us. Like I said, it's been now what that's 14 years of of this, so wow, yeah that's a great pairing you meeting them and everything.
54:46 - Aaron (Host)
Obviously you know that the universe can spot it the first time we saw the shook twin.
54:50 - Apple (Host)
What was it? Uh, the summer meltdown or no?
54:53 - John (Guest)
no, it was, it was northwest string summit 2019.
54:56 - Apple (Host)
It just blew our door. We're like what is that? Because then there's like this lore to learn about, about the a, the golden egg and all the different things, and they're so fun and the the coup, the the cooing, and they turn that, that little hollow that we were in, into like a fairy wonderland, while they were, it was so mystical and cool and like otherworldly.
55:19 - Aaron (Host)
While they were on, I remember, mel, was you got sprung and we had just interviewed them.
55:24 - Mel (Host)
Well, we had just interviewed them and they, they sounded like sirens. You know, like you know, we're coming up. We hadn't, we weren't there right when they started. So we're starting to walk, and it was our first Northwest string summit. We didn't know where we were going, but we just hear this like it sounded like mermaids, it sounded like a siren, and it's where.
55:43
I'm like what the heck? And then you just see all these like twinkling lights and you know, and then, and then I mean I'm sure you know their songs stay wild, that the beginning of that song is starting and we're like kind of trekking to get there.
55:58
Beginning of that song is starting and we're like kind of trekking to get there and it was just such a memorable experience to see. First of all, they're gorgeous and they're all their glory and their outfits, but then that, like aaron said, that magical fairyland and that song it was, it was entrancing, it was, you know, like again like sirens calling you in and then they get there and doom, you're hooked.
56:19 - Aaron (Host)
Yeah, you're in the mix. Yeah, we've been hooked ever, since.
56:21 - Mel (Host)
We love those ladies so much.
56:23 - Aaron (Host)
We're performing Saturday at Cascade as well, so maybe we'll get to see man.
56:28 - Apple (Host)
Oh cool, what band.
56:30 - Aaron (Host)
No, just us, we're doing a live podcast.
56:31 - Apple (Host)
We're just doing a live podcast, yeah a live podcast.
56:33 - Aaron (Host)
Oh Cool, that's awesome. Yeah, nice yeah.
56:35 - John (Guest)
Yeah, I'll come say hi.
56:36 - Aaron (Host)
Cool, okay, before we go, I got to know who is your. Like comedy Mount Rushmore.
56:44 - John (Guest)
Oh, great question. I mean, there's like the ones that I would be proud to say, and then the people that, like I, was listening to as a kid, which are not that great great historic hindsight but just in full honesty, as a child what was around me was like seinfeld.
57:03
um, you know, you always find bill cosby records in like dollar bins. So I I remember one kid like had like a play school record player, you know, and had like 10 bill cosby records and again, not a great thing to be listening to now kids, but at the time we didn't know and it was like it's, it's, it's a, it's a standard level of like standup comedy. That that I learned a lot from, I think, and I watched a lot of Seinfeld, things like Conan O'Brien and Saturday Night Live and the Simpsons. I know these aren't necessarily like standup comics, but these are things really shaped my sense of humor for sure. A lot of SNL really as a kid I really loved it and and a lot of Simpsons and yeah, those are, those are really groundbreaking.
57:48
And then I think, on the flip side, things like a John Prine and Arlo Guthrie, loudon Wainwright, todd Snyder, greg Brown these are people just good storyteller. You know, like someone like John Prine is not really someone who is up there doing bits. If you listen to the few live albums he put out, it's really subtle, but obviously it's there and it was hugely influential on me. Even people like Jimmy Buffett and people I don't really listen to now that I was coming across that have essences of that steve goodman, if you know who that is. Jim croce, like, yeah, um, all these people that just even within the songwriting is an element of cleverness and like lightheartedness that was really special to hear after listening to, like pearl jam, nirvana, alice in chains, stuff, you know, my throughout my childhood, which is also great but, um, very serious and yeah, yeah, kind of like one.
58:45
one note again, no disrespect to these, who are also my heroes too, you know oh yeah, very heavy stuff, yeah, wow I don't say this and I'll say, lastly, like what was really influential for me was people like prior, because there was that element of um seriousness. Sometimes in the bits there's a couple richard prior bits where he's not being funny. You know what I mean. He's like yeah, yep, he's almost. Uh, it gets emotional and there were moments like that as a kid that I would listen to. Uh, comedians and some I can't you know that were like being almost musical in the way of like this is and chip early chapelle and uh, chris rock did some stuff like that too. So some of these people really kind of blew my mind in that you could do that carlin.
59:32 - Apple (Host)
Carlin was like that, that's what I was getting carlin too.
59:34 - John (Guest)
Carlin's great. Yeah, he was a lot of me and aaron Aaron.
59:37 - Apple (Host)
Both let your the comparison that was thrown at you of being compared to Arlo Guthrie and Mitch Hedberg.
59:45 - John (Guest)
Mitch.
59:45 - Apple (Host)
Hedberg's one of our favorite comedians ever. The only one that's really comes above that is George Carlin, yeah yeah, yeah, hedberg and Wright.
59:53 - John (Guest)
I love the way that they are so calm on stage, which is not normal for comedians. I think I agree with that Hedberg comparison, although I think our humor is very different. You know, he's more of like the one liner type stuff, but I do think I listened to an interview with him once before he passed where he was talking about the jazz influence that you know. He had that sort of like beat poet and jazz singer influence that I think people like arlo and myself also had just trying to sound cool up there, you know, trying to sound like you're not freaking out.
01:00:26 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, well, it works steven wright was another.
01:00:29 - Apple (Host)
I can still remember the first joke I ever heard of steven wright's, where he just standing there he goes I own all of the erasers to all the golf pencils in the world.
01:00:38 - John (Guest)
And like half day.
01:00:39 - Apple (Host)
Like he says, like like half the crowd, it took them like five seconds to get it and some of them got it right away. And then you hear the laughter start like oh, okay, I get it. They don't have an eraser.
01:00:52 - Aaron (Host)
John, before we go, do you have anything coming up that you want to announce besides cascade?
01:00:58 - John (Guest)
Yeah, so do you have anything coming up that you want to announce?
01:01:00 - Aaron (Host)
besides cascade, yeah, when is this dropping Two weeks.
01:01:04 - John (Guest)
Cool, yeah, I have. Well, let's see. This Friday, which will be in the past, I have a single that's dropping off of a new live album really is what I should talk about in September. Oh, cool yeah, with brand new live album that was recorded at the Aladdin and at Rev Hall over the course of a couple of different shows, and that's always exciting for me because I really like the live albums. They capture, I think, a very honest part of my craft, and so this is my third live album and it's called John Craig. He greatest hits dot, dot, dot. Just kidding, live, no hits. The manager loves those times. Yeah, wow, all right.
01:01:49 - Mel (Host)
I mean, if you can't laugh at yourself, what are we doing? You know?
01:01:53 - Apple (Host)
And then if people want to find out more about you, where do they go? Cause I know I looked at your tour dates. You got a lot coming up all the way through October, november, totally.
01:02:03 - John (Guest)
Going all across the country. So yeah, you can just Google my name or johncraigmusiccom, instagram, all those things. Just usually the Internet makes it, hopefully, pretty easy.
01:02:13 - Aaron (Host)
And not in an Astro van.
01:02:15 - John (Guest)
Correct yeah, mostly rented cars these days because I fly out.
01:02:20 - Aaron (Host)
But van Correct, yeah, mostly, mostly rented cars these days, cause I fly out. I do have a Subaru here in Oregon, of course you live in Oregon, you have to have a Subaru, it's required living here.
01:02:26 - John (Guest)
It was given to me as I got passed through the gates.
01:02:28 - Aaron (Host)
We got the same one. We'll see you at cascade man.
01:02:32 - John (Guest)
Thank you so much for talking to me. Thank you, John, have a good night brother, you too.
01:02:42 - Aaron (Host)
Wow, what a sweet one, john Craigie, everybody.
01:02:44 - Mel (Host)
Right on.
01:02:44 - Aaron (Host)
That's the real deal, yeah.
01:02:48 - Apple (Host)
Like just I just love his whole thing, like lowered expectations and like kind of like that's how he's approached everything and just like I wasn't expecting much, so what I got I was always happy with.
01:03:03 - Mel (Host)
Like breaking, even not losing money for years and years, I'm still doing it, so it's fine. It's like serious and not at the same time but do you know what I mean by that? Like he's clearly serious about his craft.
01:03:18 - Aaron (Host)
Oh yeah, and his writing. You don't learn how to play like that Exactly, yeah, no.
01:03:22 - Mel (Host)
But then also like so what I'm doing this.
01:03:26 - Aaron (Host)
Well, that's, that's like the. The trippy part of it is to be grateful for all the little stuff. Right, but still dreaming, yeah.
01:03:42 - Apple (Host)
And not being crushed when the dream isn't happening. And being talented, because I mean, like he said, how many cds do you think jack johnson has piled up over?
01:03:49 - Mel (Host)
they were given to him and that this, this, oh that like the room for how many cds, I wouldn't say luck but like how are the stars aligned for that to happen?
01:03:58 - Apple (Host)
Him and his wife are driving. It's like. Well, we got this, let's put this in and then to be impressed. And then, all of a sudden, you're going from a coffee shop to stepping on stage at the Gorge and the Greek and Santa Barbara Bowl, Like wow, it was meant to be John.
01:04:14 - Mel (Host)
Yeah, All right everybody, John Craigie go get the new album, follow him on the socials, support him, buy the merch Is that?
01:04:24 - Aaron (Host)
a thing that you say Get the new album, or would you stream the new album? I guess you can buy the new album.
01:04:29 - Mel (Host)
Albums are super hot again right now. They're so hot.
01:04:32 - Aaron (Host)
They're so hot right now.
01:04:34 - Mel (Host)
They're so hot this year. Okay, so, okay, so yeah, buy the album. It's a real. You know what? You're from portland, you're like have some swanky little party, your friends are over and you're like you know what I'm gonna bust out my brand new live john craigie album.
01:04:48 - Apple (Host)
That's dope I will say that album art. You put it on the little shelf like people we know have those like right above. Your like playing now?
01:04:57 - Aaron (Host)
I will say this about john craigie everyone. If you're not familiar with him, if you, the studio stuff is amazingly well crafted, beautiful songwriting, amazing playing. He he's a master of his craft. But if you want to get a feel for the like the full picture, john john craigie, listen to the live albums. The one he did at Mississippi Studios is so funny and so good.
01:05:24 - Mel (Host)
And, yeah, I can't wait to hear the new one, and he's got a new one coming out.
01:05:28 - Aaron (Host)
All right, well, that's that, and we will be back on Monday with another episode of the no Simple Road Weekly. Rewind, everybody get your tickets for Cascade Equinox Festival. Go see John Craigie and the Shook Twins and Daily Bread and Closy and.
01:05:44 - Mel (Host)
Jungle, jungle, sts9. Us Kitchen Dwellers.
01:05:49 - Aaron (Host)
I mean there's a lot going on, yeah there's a lot happening and until then, take care of each other. Smile at a stranger Safety. Third Love one another. Love yourself, hydrate.
01:06:00 - Mel (Host)
Don't take yourself too seriously.
01:06:02 - Aaron (Host)
And get that winter like fall winter garden all set up. It's about that time everybody's going to start getting weird. All right, talk to you all soon. We love you all. Peace, peace.