ALex Hoffman of The Too Much Effing Perspective Podcast in the Studio With No Simple Road

00:00 - BILL WALTON

Why can't every day be like this? No, simple road. Yeah, no, I've been on that road too.

00:39 - Apple (Host)

Okay, it's only like your second time.

00:41 - Aaron (Host)

I know right. We'll let it slide today, apple. Thanks, man, I appreciate it.

00:48 - Apple (Host)

Aaron forgot how to work the record button.

00:50 - Aaron (Host)

I did. What's up? Everybody we're here. We made it.

00:54 - Mel (Host)

We're live. It's Sunday.

00:57 - Aaron (Host)

So here's. I didn't tell you this before we started. This is going to be. This is coming out tomorrow Wow, yeah, so welcome. Hey now, no Simple Road family, you're here with us for another edition of the no Simple Road.

01:11 - Mel (Host)

We believe you are Jesus. I forgot the name of our shows for a second.

01:15 - Aaron (Host)

We were brought to you in collaboration with the Edible Beats out of Denver, Colorado. If you aren't familiar with the Edible Beats, you should go familiarize yourself with them. Go to Google and type in the Edible Beats and then just go down the rabbit hole. If you're in Denver and you don't know who the Edible Beats is, you do because you've seen Linger and you've seen Root. Down and L5 and all the. Ophelia's electric soap box.

01:42 - Apple (Host)

And what was the one you showed me this morning at Linger?

01:47 - Aaron (Host)

Oh, the Vietnamese coffee. French toast.

01:50 - Apple (Host)

That looks like an art masterpiece. That didn't look like French toast.

01:54 - Aaron (Host)

No, it looked like some culture.

01:57 - Mel (Host)

So in studio today we have Alex Hoffman of Too Much Ethin Perspective.

02:04 - Mel (Host)

Thank you for joining us Alex, this is awesome.

02:07 - Aaron (Host)

So, as you all know that, listen to the show. No Simple Road is part of Osiris Media. What you don't know is that, well, maybe you do, I don't know. What do I know? Me telling you what you do and don't know? But that we're also part of Evergreen and the Too Much Ethin Perspective podcast is our Evergreen podcast partner. Is that it?

02:30 - Mel (Host)

Is that?

02:30 - Aaron (Host)

it. Yeah, we're podcast cousins, so we came to know each other through Evergreen, and the Too Much Ethin Perspective podcast is pretty damn amazing. Will you give them the elevator pitch?

02:49 - Mel (Host)

Let's hear about it. Let's hear about Too Much.

02:51 - Alex (Host)

Ethin Perspective Too Much. Ethin Perspective is inspired by the film this Is Spinal Tap, and our premise is that every musician and entertainer who's ever been on the road has lived through at least one, if not many, scenes from that film. And my co-host and I both have careers in the music and entertainment business. I was a concert tour manager, a radio head PJ Harvey, the Bo Deans and I, just very early on in my touring career, I realized that I was living through Spinal Tap in real life.

03:27

So we were just an over and over and over again. So you know I've always enjoyed sharing those stories and I just they really make me laugh, and we wanted to hear those stories from others, other musicians, other entertainers, and so that's a word about Wow, how long has the show been going Since the fall of 21.

03:50 - Mel (Host)

Wow, okay.

03:51 - Aaron (Host)

So was this born of COVID boredom.

03:55 - Alex (Host)

This was sort of born of my co-host and I my co-host, alan Keller. He and I talked about this many years ago in a well pre pandemic, but it was yeah, it was kind of that it was. We had a little extra time on our hands, right. And we kind of re-visited the idea and thought let's just give this a shot.

04:14 - Mel (Host)

How do you and Alan know each other?

04:16 - Alex (Host)

You know back in going way back. He and I were both in Milwaukee, wisconsin, in the early 90s. He had a great band called the Falling Walendas. And which was primarily a Chicago band and I was tour managing at that time and we just we met kind of in that context and became friends and we've I mean he's one of my oldest friends at this point it's been decades.

04:45 - Mel (Host)

Right on. How do you go about being a tour manager, like in the very beginning? Thank you, mel. Yeah, like right from the start. Like you get out of school you're doing whatever like. How does that fall on your lap?

04:55 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, I mean to be as succinct as I can. The I went to the University of Wisconsin, madison. Alan went there too. We actually just didn't know each other. I mean he was he's a little, you know, it was a year or two before me, but in any case, my last year of college I was the head of the concert committee at the student union.

05:13 - Mel (Host)

Okay, so music was always in your, your like yeah, I was.

05:16 - Alex (Host)

I was always interested, but I always I always thought I'd be in a band and I in fact tried to. You know I had some bands and stuff, but having that role with with the concert committee actually taught me that there was a business behind the music business.

05:31 - Mel (Host)

Yes.

05:32 - Alex (Host)

And it was almost like you know, we all, all of us who who have kids and and no young people, know about internships. That wasn't really a word we had back then, right, but that it was basically tantamount to an intern having an internship in the music business. Wow, so we because we were booking four shows a week at the student union. And, by the way, that's my, that's my little fish sidebar. Okay, here we go.

05:53

Which is which is in in either. It was either like the fall of 89 or the spring of 90. Someone on the committee booked fish in the student union in the in the kind of like the beer hall we called the Raskaller on a Thursday night, paid him 50 bucks. Wow, did you go? I didn't. Oh, that's the one that got away. Oh man, yeah, definitely. 50 bucks, yeah, unbelievable.

06:23

But I heard it was a rock of show and anyway, that's how I got my, that's how I got my start, and so I, you know we were booking all these shows, working with national agents and record companies and stuff to bring, because they wanted their bands, especially the bands that were coming up, to play there, because it was free to to to the whole community, right? Oh, it was a great way to expose new artists. And we had the indigo girls. We had, you know, former members of who's to do who came and played. We had a lot of cool Minneapolis bands and Chicago bands and stuff like that. The pumpkins the pumpkins, especially pumpkins played like a year later after I was gone, but it was like those are the kinds of bands that were coming in at the time.

07:01 - Mel (Host)

Is this you said late 80s, early 90s? Yes, Okay.

07:03 - Alex (Host)

Yes, and so anyway, after that, the summer, after my, after I graduated, I I worked believe it or not for cheap tricks manager for a while who was in Madison, Wisconsin, Okay, and so that was kind of my first, you know, real professional experience. And then it kind of got the opportunity a little bit later to tour manage the Baudin's when they were going out on on one of their Warner Brothers records. So that's kind of how it got going.

07:30 - Aaron (Host)

Is it? Is it as difficult as it seems to be a tour manager? It seems to me that, like creative types, musicians especially, are very like in their head about everything and not concerned about time and all that Is it. Is it that as difficult as I would imagine?

07:52 - Alex (Host)

Well, the Ramones tour manager had this great joke what's the difference between a tour manager and a toilet bowl?

08:00 - Mel (Host)

Okay, A toilet bowl.

08:01 - Alex (Host)

A toilet bowl only has to take shit for a while Only has to take shit from one asshole at a time.

08:11 - Aaron (Host)

Oh hell no, so you're basically getting paid to take shit.

08:16 - Alex (Host)

Well, yeah, I mean look, you know, as I've said many times, there were a lot more good days and bad days. It was a lot of fun, I mean, especially at that time, to be on the road, be to be to, you know, concert, you know, most nights of the week Just seeing the country. I mean I, you know I traveled some as a kid, but not like that right, not going to so many cities and all that kind of thing, and but it was fun, it really was fun. And you are kind of like, you know, you are a management's representative on the road, taking care of the business, collecting all the money, keeping the books that's like the adult part Right. And then there's babysitting the band and making sure that they're doing their interviews and getting to the gigs on time to do sound check and all of that.

09:01

And you know, I really wish in retrospect I would have taken better care of the crew. You know the crew, the crew wasn't going to yell at me. The band was right If they weren't happy. So I was sort of like I was. I was paying, you know, more, more attention to the band, but but you know, the crew guys make it all happen right. And you're you're kind of a traveling family on the road. So anyway, it's just there was a lot to learn and it was a. It was a good way to make a living at that time.

09:27 - Mel (Host)

Wow. So that sounds like a lot. So you're doing the boat deans.

09:31 - Apple (Host)

and so then, how did you? Because, like you said, we're huge fans of Radiohead and everything how, how did that gig come about?

09:40 - Alex (Host)

It was one of those things I got. I got really lucky. I mean, the boat deans were kind of in this middle tier bands, right, they were not, they really mostly were paying, kind of like theaters and larger clubs. And so it got to, you know, got to do a lot of a lot of networking and just meet a lot of people in terms of club bookers and talent buyers and and different sorts of folks, and we went through, went through the Bearsville Theater Do you guys know that place that's? That was Albert Grossman, bob Dylan's manager, had this recording complex in a theater in Woodstock, new York.

10:20 - Aaron (Host)

That's where Mike Dubois did the art thing. Yes, we were familiar with that Right.

10:26 - Alex (Host)

So the guy who was managing Bearsville at the time, a really cool guy named Dan Griffin, he was he'd been a tour manager and he just, he just knew how, what it takes to kind of like, and I was my first tour, so I I didn't know how work was going to come my way ultimately, but he said, hey, I, you know, if I can help you connect with people after this tour is over, I'm happy to do so. Anyway, long story short, he introduced me to an agency called International Talent Group out in New York. And they were they. They represented David Bowie and the cure and the Peshmode and Duran Duran I think they had Peter Gabriel and they were starting to cultivate their next generation of British bands. And so I got connected with an agent there.

11:10

He, he hired me to do this is a summer of 92 to do a small band called balloon had the first record on RCA records and that was a great. It was two, two Brits and a Kiwi, and we had a great time. We were in a van and they were just, they were into having every adventure, you know. They were just really into like getting off the freeways, driving on, you know, back roads and state highways and really seeing the country Cool, which was super fun. That then, oh, we did, and we did six weeks opening for Sarah McLachlan, and that was so that was really cool. The next tour with them was with PJ Harvey on her first US tour, and that tour was just, you know, like every day was a spiral tap moment on that one.

11:54

It was just that was just nuts, but then but then the following summer was, you know, pablo honey. Radiohead had Pablo honey and creep was a huge hit on MTV. And so just in the context of sort of building that relationship that I was asked to to tour, manage, to tour manage Radiohead on their first. It was supposed to be just their first month because they already had a British tour manager and I was just going to kind of show him the ropes and how things go over here in the States. But we got on so well that after the first week they said, hey, we have another tour coming in the fall. We're going to go highline with Tonya Donnelly's band, belly oh, and we want you to come back and do that one too. So yeah, it ended up being a really great, great run.

12:35 - Aaron (Host)

So for us. We've always been fans of Radiohead, but we had never had the opportunity to see them live until we moved up here.

12:45 - Alex (Host)

It was recent when they played at the moda.

12:47 - Aaron (Host)

All right For Moon Shape Pool. Yeah, I didn't know what we were in for. I I figured it would be a nice cool concert Like no big deal. I think the three of us would say it's one of the top three concert moments of our lifetime. I would equate it with going and seeing my first Grateful Dead concert, in how impactful it was.

13:18 - Apple (Host)

The next day, one of the best things about that somebody local for, like the local, what is it?

13:23 - Aaron (Host)

In the weekly Willamette Weekly.

13:26 - Apple (Host)

Did a write up of it like a couple of days after and he compared it to he's like you could go to 10 years of therapy. You could climb the highest mountains and meditate with the Buddha's this and that, or you could save time and go to see Radiohead, and that's kind of how we felt it was like trans-same. I mean, we were digesting it for weeks.

13:47 - Mel (Host)

Did you make it to that concert? I did.

13:49 - Aaron (Host)

You did yeah. And they did creep.

13:52 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, they pulled creep out, which area which we know they never liked creep, still don't like creep, don't like to play it, and they pulled it because they hadn't then played here and like 16 years.

14:03 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, it had been like two decades.

14:04 - Apple (Host)

Yeah and was like got something special for you and played creep which was one of the well, I mean probably because that night, listening back to it, one of my favorite versions of creep I've ever heard.

14:15 - Aaron (Host)

I've heard that song 10 trillion times.

14:18 - Alex (Host)

Right.

14:19 - Aaron (Host)

And I know I had never heard that song until that night.

14:22 - Mel (Host)

Well, and also I've never been to a rock concert with a monk rocking out in full gar.

14:29

It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen, like in that orange robe and like killing it, like so excited and so into the atmosphere of the concert. And we just, you know, when we left, like the way that they made the whole room look like a disco ball and just if it was one of the first times I felt like the band used the entire arena for their stage. It wasn't just in the front, it was like everywhere. Even the sound felt like it was coming from everywhere.

15:02

Yeah it felt like we were in the Radiohead bubble and like it was one of our. Well, it was our first concert at the Moda. We'd never been to the Moda Right and it was one of our first concerts coming here into Portland and it was just like such a different feeling and, plus, like all those years of loving a band, you haven't seen them and they come with In years of hearing like Tom York's a shaman and like Ty, and then like seeing them live.

15:24 - Apple (Host)

Like he changes throughout the performance, you see different stuff and when the best part, forget which song, but when he's playing the piano, doing his thing, and they got the camera and his wonky eye and they do it on the huge screen and the crowd went. That was probably the craziest the crowd got that night, because the rest was kind of respectful. He opens his eye and he looks around and everybody just lost their shit for Tom York's eye and it was like, wow, I just got goosebumps like talking about it.

15:56 - Aaron (Host)

Do you lose that being with them?

16:00 - Mel (Host)

Well, a little bit, you come on.

16:03 - Alex (Host)

You know, I think I mean I did. I one time countered it up I think. I think I was at 60 radio head shows that year. Something like that was at their very first ever US performance, which was pretty cool little club in Boston called Venus de Milo, across from Benway Park, I mean you know it was cool to see them. I want to answer your question. I guess there's different sparks as you move through and I've had fun on Reddit posting some things because there's a huge, you know, radiohead subreddit. It's one of the it's in the top 1%. You know several hundred thousand raditors for Radiohead and I've kind of dug into my archive of things that I have and posted some old photos and things like that and the community there's really engaged nicely and they're very keen to hear stories and things like that. So you know, to your question, you know, night after night, the show, the show is the show and there's just amazing things that happen certain nights, right, like yeah like I had somebody ask me like did I have you know?

17:22

could I have? Did I see it? Did I still look at the rear of your mirror and I see, did I see all this greatness? And the short answer was not really, but if you could, you know.

17:32 - Mel (Host)

But it's there. But that makes sense because it's the first time that they were coming, so they're kind of like learning themselves.

17:37 - Apple (Host)

They were figuring themselves out at that point.

17:39 - Alex (Host)

Absolutely Apple. That's true, they were really. You know, they were figuring out what it meant to be famous and what it meant to be celebrities, and how they were still gelling as a band and all those kinds of things. But there were these moments of anything ranging from like being at Market University in Milwaukee and there was some sort of equipment malfunction, the band kind of I don't remember there to stop in the middle of a song or what happened. But Tom got really impatient while the crew was figuring out what the problem was. So he just grabbed an acoustic guitar and spontaneously started to play Street Spirit off of the bands, right, well, no one had heard that and it was an absolutely inspired thing to do. And the place was, you know, the place was mesmerized, wow. And then, of course, there's the famous you know, the MTV Beach House, which is on YouTube, where Tom dives in the pool. Okay, and you know that was I mean, that was wholly unexpected for me because it just that seemed really out of character to him, you know just for him.

18:42

I just I wouldn't have expected him to kind of make that move and that was quite, you know, quite spontaneous. So those, you know, those, those kinds of things that were, that were pretty cool, I can I can imagine they seem like such Tom especially seems like such a strange guy.

19:03 - Aaron (Host)

I think I said it yesterday to you. I was like I don't know if I'd want to even interview him.

19:08 - Mel (Host)

Yeah. I don't even know how you would.

19:10 - Apple (Host)

Like what you would ask him. What would you say?

19:14 - Aaron (Host)

Is it dealing with that kind of, those kind of personalities on the road? Did it take some finesse on your part?

19:25 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, it took I mean pretty early on in in these kinds of situations, especially when you're living together in very close quarters. I mean, on that first tour we had 11 guys on a tour bus.

19:42 - Mel (Host)

Oh shit.

19:42 - Alex (Host)

Five band members me, they're British tour manager and I think you know, mathematically was it for the crew guys and then the bus drivers well, actually 12 when the driver was driving. So you kind of like you have to a lot of patients with each other. You got to kind of figure out what it feels idiosyncrasies are all that kind of stuff. But I'd gotten a little bit of a heads up that Tom needed some extra attention and so I really, you know to liberally built that relationship, you know, and just made an effort to get to know each other and we had a lot of meals together and just spent time and had conversations and that got allowed us to kind of get ahead of points of friction. You could kind of see where they were going to be.

20:29 - Aaron (Host)

Oh, okay, yeah, because you're getting to know the person. Yeah, yeah.

20:32 - Alex (Host)

And building, just building. That rapport was really important.

20:34 - Mel (Host)

So like is that from your school perspective? Is that something that they're teaching Like how to like be with not necessarily difficult personality, but like artists and like is there like a one-on-one, like taking care of artists one-on-one, or is that like something that you really have to kind of figure out on your own and that's your personality?

20:57 - Alex (Host)

Well, in my case, I had to figure it out. I mean being at, you know, that internship situation. I had at the University of Wisconsin. That was my first experience of just dealing with different kinds of artists as they were coming through and gaining a sense of what the expectations were. Where are you gonna? You know, where are you gonna run into trouble.

21:20 - Mel (Host)

Yes.

21:21 - Alex (Host)

Where? Who are the folks that are really just like super simple, just go with the flow, and who are those that? Who are those that are just gonna you kind of get the sense they're just gonna require more attention to have this be successful and not be a really kind of bumpy you know again, even though they're only there for a couple of hours to do the show right yeah, can you? Ultimately, you want everybody to walk away feeling like, hey, this was a good, this was a good experience.

21:45 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, absolutely so, this is so it's more like yourself. Then you just kind of adapt and like figure out and kind of like what these personalities are and just engage them.

21:55 - Alex (Host)

You do and you have to kind of know what your boundaries are. Right, you got to, because I mean some people, just if you let them push you a little bit, they'll just take full advantage of that. So, you got to know how to have some how to take advantage Right.

22:13 - Mel (Host)

Go ahead.

22:14 - Aaron (Host)

Apple oh.

22:14 - Apple (Host)

I'm just curious, like the tour manager thing like you did, how long did you continue being tour manager for bands period?

22:24 - Alex (Host)

I did it about, you know, five years. This is my full-time gig. I wasn't all you know what wasn't on the road the whole time. I mean, it was like the winter was often kind of a dead time, naturally, but things would ramp up late spring, summer, and then often it would go from summer through through the holidays.

22:43 - Apple (Host)

Sounds like our life, sounds like music fans life yeah absolutely.

22:50 - Aaron (Host)

I think that very early on in the life of doing no Simple Road, we realized very quickly like at least I did that the people that we were talking to were human beings. They weren't gods or superheroes. They were just people that happened to be talented at playing instruments or singing or whatever. And that was a strange realization of you know, after 30 years of being a music fan and you know, especially growing up in the 80s and 90s, there was a mystique that was afforded a rock star.

23:27

I'm doing air quotes to everybody out there that's not the same today, that I don't see that thing as much, and I think maybe it's maybe in part because of social media that we have a glimpse into the life behind the scenes a little bit more than we used to but like- yeah, we never used to have like be able to see a celebrity's house or car or kids Like that was you know

23:55 - Apple (Host)

an inquirer maybe, or seeing like we do all the time, like now it's seen, especially festivals, seeing band members hanging out. You're hanging out in the crowd and you look over and there's the guy that was just on stage they're watching the band with you.

24:08 - Mel (Host)

They're much more approachable now.

24:10 - Apple (Host)

Back then there was like a separation of like the rock stars were up here, unless you got the package for the meet and greet afterwards to see them for a moment.

24:20 - Aaron (Host)

So I just think about Now it's easier to hang out with them. A band like Metallica in the late 80s, early 90s, like when the black album came out, Master Puppets, You're not gonna go see those guys hanging out in the bar after the show. They're on the bus and gone Like is it part of your job as a tour manager to? Was it your part of your job to maintain that wall? Yes, that's crazy.

24:54 - Mel (Host)

Yeah. And I would imagine Do you feel like it's different now, or do you still see it the same? Well, it's interesting.

25:00 - Alex (Host)

I mean, as you were saying this, I think, yes, social media has been a game changer in terms of that accessibility, cause there used to be shows like VH1 Behind the Music and Cribs and these kinds of things. Those were the portals right, and now there are multiple portals and there's almost too much Infinite portal. Oversharing right yes.

25:21 - Mel (Host)

Yes, there is an oversharing.

25:23 - Alex (Host)

But the thing was that, you know, again, it was very, very much dependent on the artist.

25:33

Some bands were and the individual right. I mean, it's like even within a band, some people, some members of the band, were eminently hangoutable right and they just wanted to be out there meeting people and were happy to not only sign autographs but then go have a drink, or they wanted to go to pills parties or whatever, and others would go onto the bus or want to get back to the hotel as soon as possible. They did not want to interact with the fans whatsoever. In fact, in some cases Tom didn't even want to interact with the record company people. Wow, pj Harv, polly Harvey really didn't either. You know, it was just like they just wanted to do their thing and they wanted to just get into their own space and kind of be left there, and that's just kind of their personality, right, and so yeah but it was one of those things where you know, looking back, it's like I think that artists who are kind and engaging with their fans, I think, just have more longevity.

26:45

You know, not that again great longevity, right so. I mean, this is not Not based on those two Right right, but I mean I've also seen, I mean I've seen artists be really rude to their fans and it's like it just kind of just doesn't make sense.

26:59 - Apple (Host)

Yeah that doesn't make sense. I'm curious too, like so then you as the tour manager, do you need you step up and communicate with the record company for them or to somebody? And I'm wondering how the record company looks at like we'd like to talk to Tom. It's like, well, tom's not gonna talk to you, you get to talk to me.

27:17 - Alex (Host)

Well, it was just. I mean it's just, it's not writing interference thing.

27:20 - Mel (Host)

I mean, that's what it is like yeah, okay, and trying to just be, you know, a conduit for information.

27:27 - Alex (Host)

sometimes that kind of thing, I mean, you know, interestingly, that very first, and there's also kind of a timing component of this too right, there's times where it just is a lot, it makes a lot more sense. The band or the artist is just in a kind of they're in a window that actually it's really good to interact with them Okay, yeah. Five minutes before they go on stage is not one of those windows right.

27:52 - Mel (Host)

Yeah right.

27:53 - Alex (Host)

So I remember at that Boston show with radio had their first ever US gig at Venus DeMilo, the band was by the side of the stage. We were like it was moments before we were gonna go on, and I say we, I was not going on.

28:09 - Speaker 2 (Host)

They were going on. They were going on, it's the. Royal.

28:11 - Alex (Host)

The Royal, yeah yeah, and one of the you know it was a sold out show packed and one of the security guards let this cute girl come through, you know just the side, the side stage door or whatever, and she kind of comes up to the band and I just sort of very gently kind of put my hands on her shoulder, said not right now, kind of turned her around and sent her back out and the guys were like that was really smooth.

28:43

You know, yeah, right oh that looks sweet, yeah, and they just knew that there I was, that I was going to take care of them, right, and that was just that kind of set the tone for the rest of the tour.

28:55 - Mel (Host)

Well, do you think that you'd be the playing? Well, they thinking that you were going to band and like having that. Would you be that kind of person that would want to have attention before after, or would you be like, oh, I just kind of need my solo time?

29:11 - Alex (Host)

I think I mean, look, I think that you know it's just like going to the.

29:20

I mean you said it, aaron, like these are real people yeah right and they are, and that's kind of like on our podcast, too Much Tears in Perspective. We like sharing these stories because every one of us goes through these spinal tap moments in our day to day jobs and in our relationships with friends and family, just these goofball situations, and they're similar to what artists go through when they're on the road and when they're on stage and make you know, just it's a relatable thing, right. And so to your question, mel. You know, when you just like when you just had an intense day at work, you get home you might need a minute, right, and I think that's the same. When artists come off stage, they have just like laid it out there. It's an intense, whether you're, whether you're a band that's doing a 45 minute set or whether you're a spring scene doing a three hour set, you know it's just like you've just you've had a hell of a workout.

30:18

You've said everything you needed to say yeah, yeah so, yeah, you might need a minute before you're, you know, even able to have a kind of coherent conversation with somebody. So I think I'd probably be the same way.

30:30 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, I, I see there's a.

30:33

Well, just to finish that off, I just I totally understand that what you were saying. It's such an intense and like energy heavy job that they're doing and it it's they're receiving so much like at them, which like the fans and music and everything at them, and there's so much information that it just seems like I can't understand how everybody. Would you need a minute, like at least of you know five, 10, 15, 20 minutes, to kind of gather yourself and just not hear sound or not say words, you know? So I just thought about.

31:08 - Aaron (Host)

A video of Trey. It's in a. It's in the documentary between me and my mind. Have you watched that? I have not. It's fantastic.

31:17

Yeah, it's really good it's really good and they're fishes on stage and they're just destroying this arena. And the show ends and the camera's like following Trey and he walks off stage and like shakes a couple of people's hands, says good night, and goes and walks out the back door and gets on his bus and is just sitting there by himself like eating dinner. And it's literally like eight minutes after the show, the lot after the encore, do you know what I mean? And it's and it was really poignant actually the way that they filmed it and showed it, because it was just nobody else on the bus, just him they're filming. He's just like eating and hanging out and there goes the bus driving away. And you see that, and I think for me, seeing something like that of somebody of that caliber really drives the point home of what we were saying earlier. It's just, these are just people, man, and that's gotta be hard to take all I mean. Look what it did to Jerry, it killed him. Like to take all of that adoration and everybody's expectations and all that.

32:38 - Mel (Host)

And yours too.

32:39 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah and then just like filter that through. I've gotta go to the grocery store tomorrow and my wife is at home and you know what I mean. Like holy shit. But to have that moment I'm just like, okay, I need to decompress now and get away from everything it was really cool to see. So it just kind of drives that point home. I'm wondering, on too much effing perspective, what's the gamut of guests that you guys have, cause it's, it's. Is it just musicians?

33:14 - Alex (Host)

No, it's not Well.

33:16 - Mel (Host)

I just like your reason was.

33:17 - Apple (Host)

Fred.

33:18 - Alex (Host)

Armisen. Yeah, it's listening to Fred. Armisen this morning.

33:20 - Apple (Host)

Yeah.

33:22 - Alex (Host)

Thank you, thank you for listening, yeah, and I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, look, we we are. It's been really fun for us because and thank you for framing the question that way, cause it really is, it is a gamut, right. Yeah, we have been able to speak with people that we consider to be our, our music heroes. I mean people that we have literally heard since we were teenagers, right? So you know Nancy Wilson from heart, whoa, brian Richie from Violent Femmes I mean, the Violent Femmes first record was like the theme album of my junior high school.

34:00 - Mel (Host)

They're coming to the Cutspert, you know. Yeah, right.

34:04 - Alex (Host)

To you know my friend Alan he's he lives in LA. My co-host, Julie Bowen from Modern Families, a friend of his right.

34:11 - Mel (Host)

Oh cool.

34:11 - Alex (Host)

And Reese Darby from Flight of the Concords. You know Butch Vig is a Wisconsinite, you know from Garbage and who produced Nirvana's Never Mind.

34:21 - Apple (Host)

I saw that one on there. I want to listen to that.

34:23 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, it's, I mean when I was doing the, the, the booking of the student union, he, he and Duke Erickson, who's also in Garbage, had a band called Fire Town, and so I booked Fire Town three times that that year that I was a senior in college. And then, you know, five years, five, six years later they started Garbage and and and went from having a band that had two albums on Atlantic Records it really didn't we're great but didn't go anywhere to having multi-platinum garbage.

34:53 - Mel (Host)

Right yeah.

34:54 - Alex (Host)

And so it's been. It's been that kind of thing. You know, folks like Fred, people that are Pacific Northwest or people that have roots here in Portland, like like Carrie Brownstein and Corrine Tucker from Slater Kinney and you know Corrine is a good friend, has helped us, helped us get in contact with Fred, that kind of thing. Shepard Ferry, the artist.

35:18 - Aaron (Host)

Oh, wow.

35:21 - Alex (Host)

Let me think.

35:22 - Aaron (Host)

Shepard Ferry is amazing.

35:23 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, yeah, and a great and a great storyteller and we've been introduced to new, new artists. So we just, you know that are like we're sometimes surprised how huge they are, Like like the Luminers Jeremiah Frates from the from the Luminers as a guest, and another hero, Tommy Stinson from the replacements, you know so comedians, TV personalities, artists and, of course, musicians, who are sort of the genesis of, of this is final town.

35:52 - Aaron (Host)

Is there? Is there anybody that you've had on that like a story sticks out that you could tell of theirs Like a teaser? Yeah, don't give the whole thing away.

36:08 - Mel (Host)

Yeah.

36:08 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's a lot of.

36:13 - Mel (Host)

I'm sure they're all great.

36:15 - Alex (Host)

Well, yeah it really it really is. It really is hard to pick one, but I think that we had. You know we had Stuart Copeland on from the police, okay, and you know he had. He had some amazing stories about. You know the kind of the friction between him and and staying is pretty legendary right, I've seen some great videos, yeah, right.

36:39

And you have, you know, you kind of have this, this classic situation of a band just keeps getting bigger and bigger, and the bigger they get, the more, the more and more success they have, which seems like it would be just amazing, right, the kind of the more internal tension and friction they have. So he tells this great story. First of all, Stuart is a story fire hose, right. You just you turn him on and it is just.

37:05 - Mel (Host)

Isn't it great when you get a guess like that where you're like you don't have to say anything. You ask a question and then they're off. They're off, yeah right.

37:12 - Alex (Host)

And I mean he just, he just I gotta tell you he makes it fun for everybody, right? He really really does. So anyway, he was telling the story about being in in Turin, italy, and and playing this, the soccer stadium, and first of all, it's like a. You know, in in this, the Spinal Tap, there's that classic scene of the band getting lost under the stage and say, hello, cleveland, you know rock and roll, Cleveland, whatever. So you know, every so many artists have told us that they've gotten lost on the way to the stage, right, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's shocking, but anyway, the Stuart told us that they were in the dressing room but to get on stage they actually had to get into a like a little van, like a like a mini van. So they they literally left, left the stadium, got onto the highway and had to, and they got into traffic jam and all this kind of stuff, you know.

38:06

So that was, that was nuts. So they ended up. They ended up getting, actually, even though they were already in the building, they ended up being late for the show. By the time they got back there, they had pleased to escort all this crazy stuff. Then they get on stage and there's 80,000 Italians just going going crazy and they were, you know, with all the excitement he started playing. You know he's just his. His tempo started to pick up and and Sting got really pissed off they ended up having this screaming match on stage in front of all these fans, and so it was just like this.

38:37

One comedy of errors after another, and you're like these are some of the biggest music stars in the world, and all this just silly stuff.

38:47 - Apple (Host)

You know, this silly stuff happens and so, anyway, that's just you know that's just one example Again, that like speaks towards, like we're saying, like they're just humans, cause in my mind, especially like the police, like playing that 80,000,. These are highly trained professionals. They got their shit together. They're just saying but then and? In a sense they do you know, but they're also human and get upset and have a tantrum on stage and things, things happen.

39:16 - Aaron (Host)

I wonder what it is that cause, you said, you know, as the band gets bigger, the tension gets more right. And what? I wonder what that is, man, like? I would think, like you said, that it would be the opposite, because the, I guess the well, maybe I'm wrong the pressure is off, but I guess, the more success you have.

39:45 - Apple (Host)

The more you're desired and the ego kind of a lot of times it's the ego that takes over, like I think of like looking at like Van Halen and David Lee Roth and like certain bands like they. All of a sudden, a lot of times it's the lead singer or somebody that gets like I'm, you know, I'm the leader you got if it wasn't for me, and you start hearing stuff like that fighting on like that, Like no doubt too.

40:08 - Mel (Host)

You know, like sometimes like the record company wants to pull the main lead singer out of the band, Like oh, you don't really need them. Yeah, yeah, you could be successful on your own. There's this ostracizing and then like you're like what?

40:21 - Apple (Host)

but I'm just doing what I'm supposed to do and like the notorious stuff of like the band picker, like what is it almost famous where they get into all the the t-shirts and it's like I'm fucking blurry man.

40:34 - Mel (Host)

The whole band's blurry. You're in focus, like in the front.

40:38 - Apple (Host)

And then the shit starts and I can imagine when you're getting bigger that'd be really hard to get over, even if it's like look like they said we'll redo the shirts and stuff. Well, too late.

40:47 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's a, you know, it's a combination of things. I mean we had Jerry Casale from Divo on, you know, he was the co-founder with, with Mark Mother's Baw, and he said Mark got a case of lead singeritis, and you know, and you, yeah, you see that, and I guess you know it's one of those things where you know, going back to the difference in personalities and bands, it's just there is this natural inclination, I think, among the, the minders, whether it's the tour manager, the managers, the record company, they, the, the squeaky wheel gets the grease in a lot of cases Right and so that's like it happens everywhere.

41:26

Yeah, right, exactly. And so it's one of those things where, just when, when you know there's someone who's kind of, for whatever reason, needs that extra attention, is going to be the one who's going to throw the wobbler, as they call it right. They just get, they just get coddled more and I can. It's just natural that there is there is resentment around around that kind of stuff.

41:51 - Mel (Host)

And it was a funny, you know.

41:53 - Alex (Host)

Another radiohead story that I'll share is that we are on. You know, I feel like we were in New York. I can almost picture the scene in the dressing room and I don't know where Tom was. But the other band members were there and Colin Greenwood was was complaining to one of the managers that Tom wouldn't listen to anybody. He was only listening to Johnny musically. He was only listening to Johnny, that was all he was, but but other than that he was not, and I sort of you know, you're basically you're relevantly said he's been listening to me, you know that's been okay, and and and Colin said well, that's a combination of respect and fear, and I, oh wow.

42:37

Well, I didn't know I, I didn't know I had that kind of standing, but but I'll take it Hell yeah, yeah, well done, yeah, that's yeah.

42:46 - Mel (Host)

Because that they need to like adhere to something you know, and so to be able to have the respect of the lead. That's pretty incredible.

42:55 - Aaron (Host)

It's just funny to me like we're talking about a group of adults.

42:59 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, do you know what I?

42:59 - Aaron (Host)

mean Like, whatever that means, who knows what even that means, but like so we're grownups.

43:05 - Mel (Host)

But this is a very specific job and it's like not like anything else in the world. You're on the road all the time, waking up and going to sleep in different places. You have other people looking after you as an adult, Like that's, that's you have minders.

43:21 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah, that's weird in itself.

43:23 - Mel (Host)

And then you have to like, perform all that, like just the amount of pressure and creative, like, expect, expectation, that's, that's a lot.

43:36 - Apple (Host)

Well then, then you bring in, like like that would call in and Johnny, and then I think it like Noel, like Gallagher, when you bring brothers, like family members, into it too, they're like like he's listening to Johnny and not me. And, like the epic battle, some fights on stage with Oasis and you know, it seems, sometimes just from reading style, like a lot of British bands there's a lot of turmoil sometimes behind the scenes even with, like Pink Floyd, the stuff that went down with them over the years, and I mean that was.

44:13 - Aaron (Host)

There was some extenuating circumstance.

44:17 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, is that true?

44:18 - Mel (Host)

True.

44:18 - Alex (Host)

Butch Vig said that you know garbage has accepted this truism that when you go on the road your IQ goes down by 20 points.

44:27 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, hell yeah.

44:28 - Aaron (Host)

Okay, kind of makes sense.

44:29

I don't remember who it was that we were speaking to, but he was talking about being on the road and he was like it's literally like being a vampire. You go to the show it's nighttime, you do your sound check or whatever. The show ends, you get out of the show, you walk to the bus, you get in your coffin in the tour bus, in that little bunk, and then when the sun starts going down, you come back out. Like I can imagine that it would be. After a week of that of like seeing Hardee's and you know that gas station nine times, you start to kind of lose your mind a little bit. How did you?

45:11 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, You're also on tour as well. Like, just because you're not on the stage, you're still on tour, going on the tour bus and eating in the same way, like how did you personally handle that aspect aside from your job?

45:25 - Alex (Host)

You know, I really loved it, I really did.

45:28

It was just, it was such a cool I mean the and again, I feel like I had a number of lucky experiences, but the camaraderie of the road is a real thing and it's. There is something. There's something joyful at least there was for me when you know you got to read on the bus. You're, the bus driver pulls onto the freeway, it's probably yeah, it's like one, two in the morning and you know people are just kind of they're hanging out, they're listening to music, you can sit, you can sit up front with the bus driver and just kind of watch the road go by. I remember, I remember one time we were touring through I feel like we were in the Arizona desert, in the middle of the night, two or three am, and asked the bus driver to turn all the lights off and just cruise. I mean he didn't do it very long, mind you, arizona Highway Patrol, if you're listening right.

46:22

But yeah safety third Exactly, but it was really cool to just be, you know, just be kind of moving through the darkness with only the starlight Like moments, having moments like that, yeah, exactly exactly.

46:34

I remember another, another time just being like I think it was in the Carolinas after a show. Driving through the night I literally I took my shirt off and I just stuck my torso like up to my waist out of the window, you know, and just kind of felt that 70 mile an hour wind blowing against me and it's just, I don't know, there's just those cool things.

46:53 - Aaron (Host)

I can't think of another like. There's nothing else like that. There's no profession quite like that. It's very unique. That lifestyle is very singular of being on the road and kind of lends itself to spinal tap moments. Like you said, your IQ goes down by 20 points. We've all been on the road for a month and a half, we've been eating, you know whatever, and we're all exhausted and it would seem that it would just lend itself to to one of two things hilarious moments or really tense shit.

47:30 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, some combination thereof, but if it's, you know, if people, if people are in a, you know, basically positive mindset right. It's it just. It is a lot of fun and it's it's.

47:44

You know, I kind of thought of us at the time as kind of like being modern pirates, right, just kind of going from from port to port right and collecting your shillings yeah yeah, exactly, and it is it really is the silly things that and you know I've just had fun telling those stories on the podcast you're just finding those just like just those, those nuggets of of absurdity that are just they're really. I mean, I remember getting with the Bodines one time, you know being in a you know hotel in New Jersey or something and convincing our, our lighting guy to to take off his clothes and just sprint up and down the the hotel hallway, you know at full speed. Why?

48:26 - Apple (Host)

Because it's just, it's just because that's a fun, it's just fun.

48:29 - Alex (Host)

He just took the dare and did it.

48:30 - Aaron (Host)

You know, it's just as funny as he does, as one does, yeah, yeah, so the podcast has been running for three three years, three years. And how many episodes?

48:43 - Alex (Host)

We're around 80 at this point. Okay.

48:46 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah, so for anybody that's listening, because it seems to me that and I've heard this actually that podcasting is the new business card. Everybody I know is like oh yeah, I thought about starting a podcast.

48:59 - Alex (Host)

Yeah.

49:01 - Aaron (Host)

What do you think the hardest thing about doing a podcast is?

49:08 - Alex (Host)

I mean, for us it's the, it's the kind of the discipline of staying on top of it and and really trying to do. I mean, we do, we probably get a little bit. We try to be really meticulous curators, right, so we'll take a, we will. You know, we're looking for certain kinds of guests. We are, we are taking, you know, we're taking the interviews and curating the stories very carefully and kind of cutting it down, I like to Is there.

49:41

A lot of editing there is there is and we try to make a, we try to really have a coherent conversation for our listeners, right, we kind of package the stories in a way that feels like there's a good you know just a good story flow, right. And you know I like to I mean, this is I'm not sure how accurate this is, but we like to say it's kind of a. It's a cross between this American life and Fly on the Wall, which is David Spade and Dana Carvey's podcast. I think those, I think those two, those two shows, inspire me a lot.

50:19 - Apple (Host)

Well, your friendship shows through makes sense but you said in the beginning, you guys have known a while because you like, like the busting balls and having fun and laughing at each other and with each other and everything I love. To what he called like. It's like the quick clips.

50:33 - Alex (Host)

Well, the quick, quick taps, Quick taps, yes, yeah.

50:37 - Apple (Host)

When you want to just listen to something, for, like, they listened to one this morning and it was. That was great. It was the one with the, the California Mad TV, talking about flavor flavor and then the walking one, the story about walking that was the bet. Who the fuck are you and why am I in your car and I light up a joint? Why am I asking you? I don't care, I don't even know who you are, will you?

50:54

drop me like that, like you're in those stories or something Are great, and when you have a short time it's nice to have those.

51:01 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, so those are two. So those, yeah, thanks for bringing that up. So we have, we have kind of two formats Our, our full episodes are with a single guest and kind of having them. It's kind of like we were swapping spinal tap moment stories, right. So we want to hear theirs and we share ours from our different, you know, touch points, whether me as a tour manager, alan, alan and Banz himself other comedy things that he's been doing. You know that sort of stuff. The quick taps are typically about 10 minutes and they are usually three very short stories from different guests that are under a unifying theme, and either Alan will just Alan will do one he's like the only host or I will do it as the only host and we do. We do one of those a month.

51:47 - Apple (Host)

Okay.

51:48 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, so how do you what's the magic of getting these artists to share those types of stories? You know, cause there's not everybody's so open, you know you got to kind of sometimes pull a little bit. How do you? What's your magic?

52:02 - Alex (Host)

Well, I feel like it's, it's the connective tissue of saying, look, we, we have, we have these stories too, right, we have. We have all lived through this experience and we all recognize that the you know the spinal tap guys, right? Michael McKeehan, harry Shearer and Christopher Guest. They totally nailed the band experience in this is spinal tap and you know, we've had, in fact, we we had. But we have a friend who this, cj Vanston, who is spinal taps music director. He's played with them at at Wembley Stadium, at Carnegie Hall. You know he tours with them, right, he's, in fact, he's with them right now filming. This is spinal tap two in New Orleans, oh wow.

52:55

He's given us he'd been on the show a couple of times and given us the you know the inside scoop. And he told us that there was and he does, he does incredible impersonations, by the way. And he told us that they had a bus driver. You know, spinal tap was on tour. They had a bus driver and they had a you know, all bus drivers are Southern. And the bus drivers said you know, y'all are the only band who have ever been on my bus. We've never watched this is spinal tap right? And don't know if you exactly connected the dots that we had with him.

53:27

But in any case it is just. It is just. It's a common touchstone for anybody who has ever been on the road.

53:33 - Mel (Host)

So anyway, it's that's kind of the that's the foundation and you're sharing of yourself, and so they're feeling comfortable, exactly, it's like getting somebody on the show that has a podcast.

53:42 - Aaron (Host)

You immediately have that connection and it's easier that way, and I think that that also like sets the groundwork for them to know kind of what's expected of them too, Like you're coming on to tell this story. So you know, I wonder, with no Simple Road it's. We've been doing it seven years and I asked you that question about what do you think the hardest thing about podcasting is Cause I've been thinking about it a lot lately I think the hardest thing about doing a podcast is finding listeners, Whether is that Right?

54:29

Because we have. We have some episodes that like when it ended, I'm like I can't believe that just happened. That was insane. I want everybody to hear this.

54:43 - Alex (Host)

Right right.

54:44 - Aaron (Host)

And then you know however many downloads.

54:48 - Alex (Host)

It is. It is a little nuts, You're like what the fuck man?

54:50 - Aaron (Host)

Or like we just had Reggie Watts on the show. Yeah, I listened. I'm like for sure this is gonna be jaggy. You just didn't, you don't know. And then we'll have some. You know a local guy that plays at the Laurel Thirst and it's a huge episode.

55:10 - Apple (Host)

And then sometimes it's just us.

55:12 - Mel (Host)

It's about yeah, Sometimes it's just doing the weekly rewind.

55:16 - Apple (Host)

They're like really, really loved that and that got the most listens over somebody we thought was gonna be. That has like 200,000 followers on Instagram or something and it's like man.

55:25 - Aaron (Host)

There's no rhyme or reason, and that's the thing that I've found the most difficult is the marketing of trying to get the word out about your show. It's so hard.

55:38 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, I think that's. I think that's. I think there's a lot, a lot to that. Well, I wanna, I wanna ask each of you can you share? Can you just share a spinal tap moment? That you've had either doing this podcast or and, or with a guest or something else.

55:52 - Aaron (Host)

I have one. You can go for it I was thinking about what we were talking. So it was last year and we have some friends that own a property in Sandy and they're developing this property into a music venue and it's insane. It's the most beautiful 25 acre wonderland you've ever seen. And so our friends, Bodimojo, are throwing a festival there and it's the first like big festival that's happened on these grounds.

56:30

And the couple that owns the grounds are like family with us, and so we get booked for Mojo Family Fest. She knows it. And we get booked for Mojo Family Fest and we're like, okay, we're not just gonna do a live podcast, we're gonna do something really special. We're gonna like do a dedication ceremony with like magic, like ritual magic. We're gonna do this like cool nature magic thing. It's gonna be awesome and we spend like a month planning this thing of like and we all have.

57:10

We have, like you know we all have a part that we're gonna say and we're gonna have the crowd come and everybody's gonna gather a pine cone from around the grounds and they're gonna come make a mandala on the ground of like it's whole thing and it was really, it was really rad.

57:28 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, it came out great.

57:31 - Aaron (Host)

But we get up there and we set it all up and it's going great and I'm like third in line to say my part and I completely fucking forget and say Apple's part.

57:50 - Mel (Host)

No, you said my part.

57:51 - Aaron (Host)

I said no, I said my part.

57:52 - Mel (Host)

I went first. No, Apple went first.

57:54 - Apple (Host)

They were worried that. I wasn't in fact you guys prepared for quite a while before. I didn't start preparing until days before.

58:00 - Mel (Host)

When you're like we need you to do that and I'm like oh no, and I got to memorize some lines and stuff, and they were both like did you study, are you ready?

58:09 - Aaron (Host)

Oh, by the way, and I had given him shit about not studying. You gave me shit about not studying, which I'm a quick study.

58:15 - Apple (Host)

I like doing it. Like you know, before it I got up and nailed it.

58:19 - Alex (Host)

You know what I'm saying.

58:20 - Aaron (Host)

I get up there and I'm like voice and everything I was like. I get up there and fucking blow it and say Apple's part and Mel Mel's next to me and she goes you said the wrong thing, and so her and I start arguing on stage.

58:34 - Mel (Host)

He's like no, I didn't.

58:35 - Mel (Host)

It's the right way.

58:36 - Apple (Host)

I'm like I'm not about this.

58:38 - Mel (Host)

I didn't know where this story is going.

58:39 - Alex (Host)

I'm like, yeah, you did, cause that's what I was like, like Sting and Stewart.

58:43 - Aaron (Host)

Yes, and this is like forever recorded and going down in history as the land dedication ceremony for.

58:52 - Mel (Host)

Oh my God, it's fucking hilarious. Oh my God.

58:55 - Apple (Host)

Do you have one apple Bizarre, do I have it Well connected to the? Well, just one in period, yeah.

59:01 - Aaron (Host)

Just a moment. Over seven years, come on, yeah, seven years.

59:04 - Apple (Host)

Oh well, that's why I meant like going back to like concert things or like any show with the show with the podcast I'm trying to think I mean, first thing comes to mind this is my worst story. This is the story that happened to me at Hornings.

59:26 - Mel (Host)

Oh, why not?

59:28 - Aaron (Host)

This is a definite final yeah.

59:30 - Apple (Host)

Cause these happen. We were at the last string summit and the you know the swan song final one having a great time. We're there doing our thing and it was the. It was the last day I'd been, I'd been doing good, and I'm kind of sure that we share a lot on this show.

59:49

I was still dealing with hemorrhoids very much at that time and it was the last night. I mean, the whole thing was a party, but especially the last night, because everybody knew it was the last hurrah. Everybody was going to get on stage to do a whole thing and I had taken some acid. I had like, okay, we were done with like all our duty. That's like party today and everything.

01:00:13

Done with your duty, and yeah, and it turned into one of those moments, Like you know, so proud of everything we've done, we connected, we were having so much fun and I'm on acid Get ready for the night and just had a horrible hemorrhoid, Like I ended up with the I call it the porta potty moment from hell like story. I ended up like like we're all gussied up, ready to go. You know, our stuff is kicked in, we're going to have fun and I'm like I got to go to the bathroom first and it's already dark, so dark time. Fourth day of a festival, High on acid.

01:00:51

High on acid. I go to the porta potty and I have hemorrhoid Blood, blood everywhere, just a mess. I'm on acid, I'm tripping. I come out and they saw it on my face. I come walking back. They're waiting for me.

01:01:04

It's funny now, yeah, it is, it's funny, it's funny telling it the one now that I've had surgery and I'm fixed, it's even better to look back on. But I come out and I'm sure I was good because everybody there's them and a whole group of our friends waiting for me to go to the bathroom come back and go and they're all like are you OK to do it? Like what's wrong, and I'm like I'm in.

01:01:27 - Aaron (Host)

He takes you to his side.

01:01:28 - Apple (Host)

He's like cheers. I'm like cheers, I'm in pain, I'm a mess, I'm on it and I'm like I can't. I can't. They're all getting ready to go ahead. To what was it? To? The string dusters and yonder. String, dusters and yonder. They were wrapping up the final night and I was like I can't. So I end up curled up in a ball in my tent, cold on acid shaky, and like this is the final. I finally got my shit together because you could hear the music and camp.

01:01:57 - Mel (Host)

I'm missing that yeah.

01:01:59 - Apple (Host)

I'm missing out on everything and I'm at camp by myself and I'm hearing all the hooting and hollering and I got my shit together and hobbled Like, ok, this is going to really hurt the next few days, but I'm getting through this. And I went and joined and when they saw me come up, they're like you, may. I made it for the encore. I made it for the rest of the night. We went and saw the side boob thing and had fun, but that was my horror story.

01:02:28 - Aaron (Host)

That's a horror story.

01:02:31 - Apple (Host)

We were at a festival and this is just a real quick one, yeah, you can go for it. This is like early 90s I had a really good friend, mike, that was a roadie for Bill Graham Productions and he got me into a lot of things Like I went to all the Lollipalooza's backstage. He was the gopher for Bill Graham Productions. He was the guy that got everything that people need. No matter what it be.

01:02:54 - Mel (Host)

Green.

01:02:54 - Apple (Host)

M&M's, cocaine, a hooker, whatever. He had the connections and we went to, we went on and we went, followed. White Zombie was touring. We followed them from Las Vegas all the way up California up to Sacramento. But it was funny, it was like the. It was the first night, I believe. I think it was in Vegas and I had like backstage. I didn't even have backstage, I had Bill Graham Productions credential, so they to anybody. It looked like I worked for them, right so and I was respectful. That's why I got it. They knew I wasn't going to hassle anybody, but afterwards I see the show and I love White Zombie. They instill, you know, love Rob Zombie. But this is so embarrassing I don't even know if I told you this.

01:03:39 - Aaron (Host)

This is I'm.

01:03:40 - Mel (Host)

They were there it was like a white it was like a white zombie. Thanks for asking, Alex.

01:03:44 - Apple (Host)

Which I found out at that time. I used to always think I would be so cool, like the meet and greets, and I found out how fucking awkward that is.

01:03:51 - Alex (Host)

Can be a little.

01:03:52 - Apple (Host)

For the artists and for the, you know, for the people. And so I'm back there and this was a Halloween show and I'm back there backstage and they're hanging out and these people come in. There's a dude in a mask, we're in a Halloween mask and hanging out and I'm talking to him and he's asking me so what'd you think of the show? Like, I'm like it was pretty good, you know it's pretty good. But you know, darcy, you know or not Darcy?

01:04:19 - Alex (Host)

What was her name? Shawna Right.

01:04:24 - Apple (Host)

And I was like in love with her like everybody at the time. Being a metalhead, I'm like you know she's a little off from Rob. It was Rob zombie in a fucking Halloween mask and he was fucking with me and my buddy had put him up to it Like let go of her. Like I didn't know Mike had told was like he's a big fan, dude, go, kind of grill him about Because.

01:04:44

I were music critics and I was being on. I was like you know, the sound was a little off. Thomas and Mack the rafters rattle. I was being a critic and and then was he cool about it. Oh, he's totally cool. And then, but I'm saying that we quit talking, I'm talking to somebody else. Mike comes over and stuff, and I'm talking to Mike, he got my attention and Rob's, he took his mask off. While I'm not paying attention, I turn around.

01:05:07

I'm like oh God, he like he like, pats me on the back, he's all. It's all right, buddy. He's like he's all right, he's all. He's all that was that was. That was a good breakdown of the show.

01:05:19 - Alex (Host)

I agree.

01:05:20 - Apple (Host)

The rafters, the shit, mary Hain. He's like well, I'll see you on the road. And then we had a fall for a whole week falling down and just like honest feedback.

01:05:28 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, yeah, sometimes you don't want to hear the honest feedback.

01:05:32 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, and I was. I was glad to hear I was set up, but you were but you were also asked a question.

01:05:38 - Alex (Host)

It wasn't like you were just some opinionated jerk. Yeah, let me tell you what I thought.

01:05:42 - Mel (Host)

Lesson learned there.

01:05:44 - Apple (Host)

If somebody's wearing a mask, know who's behind there.

01:05:47 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, Can I do a little bit, bill, before we hear yours, can I do a little sidebar, which is it's been? It is going back to your hemorrhoid story, it's just been. It has been very surprising to me the number of times that a poop related story has come up, really yeah.

01:06:05 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah.

01:06:08 - Alex (Host)

And with with just unexpected, you know unexpected people, it just kind of comes out right In in various ways.

01:06:14 - Mel (Host)

And it's just I'm wearing a mask, one of those.

01:06:17 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so to speak again.

01:06:19 - Apple (Host)

Literally.

01:06:20 - Alex (Host)

I had figuratively thought yeah, but it's just one funny one is you know, patterson Hood from Drive by Truckers lives in my neighborhood in Southeast Portland and he and Mike Cooley, his partner, were were on and they told this crazy story about when Jason Isbell was in their band and somebody you know they were in. They were in a venue, a club, where the band and the audience were using the same bathroom. Oh, and somebody walked in there. Isbell was in the in the stall taking a dump and this fan recognizes boots and just starts talking to him.

01:07:02 - Mel (Host)

Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.

01:07:05 - Alex (Host)

And they said. They said Isbell just freaked out by the whole experience. Oh my God, the indignities. So how you do it, man.

01:07:12 - Mel (Host)

Yeah.

01:07:13 - Mel (Host)

That doesn't pull everything back in.

01:07:16 - Alex (Host)

Exactly. Wow, oh my God Clench worthy.

01:07:19 - Mel (Host)

Well, mine's not a poop story, but let's diversify.

01:07:22 - Alex (Host)

Come on Mel.

01:07:23 - Mel (Host)

Diversify. Well, I kept on thinking. I can't really think of a no simple road one. But this goes back to 2015, when we were in Chicago for the Grateful Dead. What is it Fair thee? Well, and it was. It was a lot. It was like important for a lot of reasons. Like my daughter was turning. Was it her 24? No, she was 20, she was turning 20. So it was like a big deal for her. It was her birthday.

01:07:55 - Aaron (Host)

It was on her birthday, July 4th yeah it was on her birthday.

01:08:00 - Mel (Host)

Aaron and I had planned to have like an impromptu, like rededication. We were gonna like renew our vows, but nothing fancy, just like between us, like at the show, and then we also had a bunch of people with us.

01:08:16 - Aaron (Host)

And it was also your first Anything with Grateful Dead.

01:08:19 - Mel (Host)

Grateful Dead yeah.

01:08:21 - Aaron (Host)

Anything, and it was Soldier Field with 75,000 folks.

01:08:25 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, so we had, I had done like further and Rat Dog, but that was it and I, so I'd never really had that experience of you know. So we're at the show and I allegedly was, you know, high on whatever I was on.

01:08:39 - Aaron (Host)

We took mushrooms.

01:08:40 - Mel (Host)

We took mushrooms and I don't know what was going on, how it started. I don't remember how it started, but Aaron and I had gotten into it. How did it get started?

01:08:52 - Aaron (Host)

It started with Althea.

01:08:55 - Apple (Host)

How did it start? It doesn't always start with Althea, it does always start with.

01:08:58 - Aaron (Host)

Althea, you, it started with you were sitting behind me is what happened? You were in the row behind me somehow and it started static between the two of us.

01:09:11 - Mel (Host)

That's all it took Whatever.

01:09:12 - Alex (Host)

Where's Althea?

01:09:13 - Aaron (Host)

The initiated Althea is a Grateful Dead song.

01:09:16 - Mel (Host)

Oh God, I got it.

01:09:17 - Aaron (Host)

And it's kind of about a guy and a girl given the guy a hard time.

01:09:24 - Alex (Host)

Got it.

01:09:24 - Mel (Host)

Got it.

01:09:25 - Aaron (Host)

Okay, and this all went down like during that song.

01:09:28 - Mel (Host)

This hat well, he remembers all the details. I just remember what happened. At a certain point I realized that he was like in my head, like literally in my head, and I was like didn't appreciate that, and I was like trying to get him out of my head and I was like pissed off at him. I was like stop doing that and like so we're having this like imaginary and real fight, like in our heads and out of our heads.

01:09:56 - Mel (Host)

And.

01:09:56 - Mel (Host)

I lost my shit and like just walked off, like left, wow, and this is the last night leading up to the whole culmination of doing not fade away with 75,000 fans and it was like, yeah, towards the end of the show as well, yeah it was right towards the end of the show and, like the big hurrah and I just fucking leave and I was like over it, you know, and so I don't know what at what point. But I just go bolt and I go down to they had like-.

01:10:24 - Aaron (Host)

Like on the concourse.

01:10:25 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, on the little concourse and they had this like overlook and it looked gorgeous until you got to the front of the overlook and then you realize it's trash down there. It's like where the trash area is. So I was like I went over there and I saw that and it further upset me thinking about like well, this is just fucking bullshit, Like everything's, like it was like a metaphor, Like me seeing this trash and like I was so angry and I'm like stomping on, like I mean I have to leave, I have to get out of here, I don't want anything to do with this guy, I don't want him in my head. But then my daughter's like, like I said, there was like a whole other-.

01:11:05 - Apple (Host)

Well, I'm not just. In your head, you were accusing her of being a wizard.

01:11:08 - Mel (Host)

Yeah.

01:11:09 - Apple (Host)

You're like you're a wizard. Get out of my head is what I remember fine. Cause they disappeared. Oh yeah, so I don't know how he found me.

01:11:18 - Aaron (Host)

I followed when you left. She gets up and bolts Like mind you, this is the final Grateful Dead, anything ever gonna-.

01:11:27 - Alex (Host)

Supposedly With the time.

01:11:29 - Apple (Host)

Right, thanks a lot With Phil. Yeah, with Phil.

01:11:32 - Aaron (Host)

Surviving members. This is it Last night, last couple songs, and she gets up in bolts and I was like fuck. So I followed you. I let you kind of take off a little bit, but I had my eye on you. And when I come up to her she's like yelling, fucking full door you're a wizard. Get out of my head and there's like other dead heads walking by, like laughing, like watching, just like-.

01:12:08 - Apple (Host)

Cause they probably some of them had been there in a similar situation.

01:12:12 - Mel (Host)

They're like oh Well, I mean, and like we ended up making up somehow, well, you were here, we're here. We made it by the end of the show when we came out, because we were at what was with Bjorn, bjorn, bjorn.

01:12:27 - Aaron (Host)

Bjorn Bjorn.

01:12:28 - Apple (Host)

Bjorn and Ari Haney and you would say you're like, I got to go follow Mel and I had no idea. We had no idea what was going on. And then we finally we get out. You're like half hour later and we come find them and Mel's sitting over like crisscross applesauce just unusual body language for her. She's just like I just wasn't having it and they kind of look in the air and like- it was like so much, like it was clearly it was like a lot.

01:12:51 - Mel (Host)

There's 75,000 people. I don't know if I've even been to a concert that big. I've never been to a concert that big prior to that. And like I don't, I learned that not to do mushrooms at a music like just that's not good for me at home.

01:13:04 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, like maybe in the forest, yeah, but at like 75,000 people first experience all that.

01:13:11 - Mel (Host)

Don't do it. And yeah, with my daughter, like all so many different, like things that were just not good, and it just it set a bad tone for the dead, for me Like indefinitely. Well, indefinitely it left a mark on me like for sure, and I mean Do you remember?

01:13:31 - Aaron (Host)

I love you man. The movie I love you man, oh yeah. Do you remember Seth Rogen and who's the Rudd.

01:13:41 - Mel (Host)

Paul Rudd, paul Rudd.

01:13:42 - Aaron (Host)

They go. They like get in fights with their women and they go to Vegas.

01:13:47 - Mel (Host)

Oh yeah.

01:13:48 - Aaron (Host)

And they take mushrooms and they go to Cirque.

01:13:51 - Mel (Host)

Do you remember? Yeah?

01:13:52 - Mel (Host)

I do.

01:13:53 - Aaron (Host)

And like they're having a great time. And then all of a sudden he's like oh no, the mushrooms are getting away from me.

01:13:59 - Mel (Host)

And then there's, like the baby on the stage.

01:14:01 - Aaron (Host)

Like I'm not papa, he's like I'm not your papa. That's exactly what happened.

01:14:06 - Alex (Host)

The mushrooms got away from you.

01:14:07 - Aaron (Host)

Look a Grateful Dead show. Sober is a lot.

01:14:11 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, period. Well, okay, behind the scenes too, my daughter was kind of like frustrated that it was like she wanted her birthday to be about her, not to be about the Grateful Dead, and so I was dealing with that aspect of it as well. So that was another kind of like shade that I was giving him, because I was getting it from my daughter. And then we had another like young kid that was with us.

01:14:35 - Apple (Host)

Oh God, I hate that.

01:14:36 - Mel (Host)

Who had a crush on me and it was a friend of Aaron's and so like there was like these weird, a lot of weird dynamics.

01:14:45 - Apple (Host)

When they took off for this kid he started crying, or something. He started crying. He sat down and was crying and me and one of Aaron's friends who's dope human being, Bjorn, that was with us he was dope we decided which was mean in retrospect but we were like we gotta fuck with this kid's head.

01:15:02

As soon as they left, he said say he's sitting there in his historic moment, grateful Dead doing this thing. It's the end. They invite me to come to Chicago and then they just ditch me Like a real, like grown man in his twenties. He's balling at a car. Same thing too high, too high out of show he's ball and we're just like what I mean Bjorn are like well, we gotta fuck with him.

01:15:25 - Aaron (Host)

Listen kids. So we fuck with him throughout the evening and just go sober man.

01:15:30 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, yeah, do not try this at home.

01:15:31 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, so much I don't recommend it, but that was that was a huge moment in music and it was also a huge moment for us.

01:15:41 - Aaron (Host)

I just missed the final song. It's fine. At that time I was like you didn't see any of it.

01:15:48 - Apple (Host)

Mickey Hart, we were. He's playing the truck horns. They were attached to two by four and then they chanted not fade away for like 15 minutes, yeah, whatever dude. So much carried out into Chicago.

01:15:58 - Aaron (Host)

We were a part of that.

01:15:59 - Apple (Host)

Everybody continued chanting yeah, you got that because it came out of the bed. Everybody chanted not fade away until it just dispersed into downtown Chicago. People are still chanting the entire way.

01:16:09 - Aaron (Host)

How cool, silly, crazy drug fuel. Yeah, so that, yeah, you learn, you live and you learn you know, I have to say, when I fucked up my lines at Mojo Family Fest I was sober, just gonna, just gonna. Oh yeah, anyway, I forgot for by listening.

01:16:23 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, it was like totally sober it was like 11, 30, 12.

01:16:26 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, the first ones doing something, but it went great. You know what?

01:16:31 - Mel (Host)

Nobody remembered that they were so stoked on the pine cone mandala that they made. Everybody was so stoked on that that they, like that didn't even matter.

01:16:40 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, that didn't. But the only ones that knew that was the three of us on stage, because I'm like go like like fuck it, just carry on, you're not gonna talk it out, right now we have shit to do.

01:16:56 - Mel (Host)

That's how that goes.

01:16:59 - Mel (Host)

So, alex, give us one of a fresh one. Give us one of your fresh ones that you, or a good one, a good one that you, that you say often what's one of your spinal tap moments?

01:17:09 - Apple (Host)

Or the great poop story. No, no.

01:17:15 - Alex (Host)

One of my, one of my personal ones. Yeah Well, there was one where there was one, where, when Radiohead was on tour with Belly, they, we had a show in Chicago. It was, there was a big, there was a big in-store planned and you know, the record company let me know ahead of time asked me, you know, is this time good, all this kind of stuff? And I agreed to it without, without doing my homework, in in so far as confirming the sound check time with the, with the venue, right, because we, you know, cause we were quite a ways into the tour at that point, everything kind of happened the same every night. And I will just date myself by saying we didn't have cell phones back then, right, everything you were doing was like you were in your hotel room or a pay phone advancing these shows and just making sure that the, the time was, you know, everything was kind of on gonna run on the schedules that you thought it was.

01:18:24

That one got away from me a little bit and but I just couldn't see, I confirmed it. And so, like a week later, a couple of days, whatever it was, I found out that this, this pre-healer show, was like a Friday night or Saturday night in Chicago the bands played super early, were off stage by like 10 PM, then it was dance club afterwards. So I totally screwed this thing up right. So we were, like we were supposed to be on sound, at doing sound check when the band needed to be at this, this record store, this record store for an in-store that was already being promoted, right. So it's kind of the it's kind of the opposite of spinal tap situation in the movie, where they go to a record store and there's no one there.

01:19:04 - Apple (Host)

Yeah.

01:19:05 - Alex (Host)

This record store had a line out the door right and the record company was furious with me, right, and so I had to. I had to figure out how to get ahead of it because I knew a couple of days ahead of time that we had a problem. So I called the band together. We had a band meeting in my hotel room and I said, guys, I messed up. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna get there a little early, you're gonna sign all this stuff, You're gonna. You're only gonna be there like 15 minutes, right, and there may be some, some pissed off fans and it's gonna be stressful, but you know, this is the situation and we're gonna be quick in, quick out and you know, ultimately I mean, they were, they were understanding. I said, in fact, I said to them yell at me now, yeah, if that has to happen, because I can't, I'm gonna be too busy thinking about other things tomorrow.

01:19:56 - Mel (Host)

What are we gonna do? I'll take you shot, take a shot.

01:20:01 - Alex (Host)

So it's going. It was my effort to kind of choreograph the breakdown of. There was gonna be one, right, I love that. But anyway, they, they, they went along with it. But I remember how stressed I was that even like we were walking, there's like a tower records in in Chicago, the. You know, we were there, we got. We got there in a van, we're walking through like a back parking lot to get in there and some fan in the, in the, in the in the parking lot, sees Tom and said you're Tom York, and he actually goes over to begin a talk tour. You know, and like to be to be nice. I said we can't, we don't have time for that right now.

01:20:36 - Apple (Host)

What are you doing? Yeah, exactly, we don't have time for that, yeah.

01:20:41 - Alex (Host)

But anyway it all, it all ended up working out. But it was just one of those things where I mean the total, total self-inflicted wound, oh my God.

01:20:48 - Mel (Host)

And the nerves that that causes.

01:20:50 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah, just really really. And having to go to the band and be like band meeting in my room everybody's here yeah yeah, I messed up.

01:20:58 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, sorry, exactly. Yeah, it's a little silly Well.

01:21:02 - Mel (Host)

So wait, last thing, or at least one of the last things. What do you? What do you want everybody to know about the show, like, what's your favorite part of the show?

01:21:14 - Alex (Host)

Well, as I said earlier, I have always loved sharing these stories of my own right and I just think that these, you know, beyond these just being celebrity stories which are just pretty, pretty accessible these days, it is this it's the relatability of even the people who live in this rarefied space. You know people, people think you know every day, people think they want to be celebrities, they think they think that being a rock star is, you know that's gotta be so easy, it's gotta be so fun all the time. You know it's gotta be so glamorous. There are, on any given day, there are a few moments of glamour potentially, and then a lot of drudgery, a lot of everyday drudgery, like the rest of us go through right, and so that whole piece of like all these rock stars are real people. They go through the same weird stuff that we go through in our everyday lives and those stories actually are really funny a lot of them.

01:22:12

And I still, even as I was thinking about you know, getting ready to talk to you guys, I was kind of going through some of the stories and just chuckling as I was kind of remembering of you know, the things that different people have told us. So that's, it's really the joy for me, it's the joy of the storytelling.

01:22:31 - Aaron (Host)

Is there. So, if they want to listen, obviously, if you're listening to this podcast, you know how to listen to podcasts, so it's on all the podcast platforms, but is there a website that they can go to? Or social media? Yeah, yeah, and what?

01:22:44 - Alex (Host)

I will say is. I will say is it's too much EFFING right, so too much effing perspective. For whatever reason, we put a weird spelling door name just to make it a little more, a little more harder for people to find us. But yeah, we have. The website is TMEPshowcom. Our social handle is also at TMEPshow on Instagram and things like that. But yeah, we have the standard stuff. We have a mailing list, sign up on our website and all the shows are there as well.

01:23:15 - Mel (Host)

All right wow, where'd the name come from?

01:23:19 - Alex (Host)

Well, there's that classic line in Spinal Tap where they are standing in front of Ellis's grave and they are absolutely butchering a version of Heartbreak Hotel right, okay. And they are it's going, it's going you know, the Spinal Tap guys are trying to sing it, they're trying to do harmonies. It's going very badly. And David St Hubbins says well, this is thoroughly depressing, as they're looking at Ellis's grave and Nigel the guitar player says well, it kind of puts everything in perspective. And David says a little too much fucking perspective.

01:23:59 - Apple (Host)

Oh, okay, we got home, we need to watch that together? I haven't watched it in years? Yeah, we haven't watched it since we were much younger together.

01:24:09 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, right on, have you ever seen it.

01:24:11 - Alex (Host)

No, You've never seen it Never seen it. Yeah, well, I mean, you'll totally get it. You'll totally get it.

01:24:18 - Mel (Host)

I mean from really for the first time. No, I'm excited, I like it and it's like Christopher Guest is just amazing.

01:24:23 - Apple (Host)

Like all of his movies, that he's done the best in show and waiting for Guffman a mighty wind and like I mean, and that they're doing Spinal Tap too, like this, this may what 40 years later?

01:24:35 - Alex (Host)

Yeah well, literally their goal. So we're still in March. The 40th anniversary of the release was at the very beginning of this month. Right, it was. I think it was March. March 2nd or March 3rd was the 40th anniversary. The original plan was to drop. This is Spinal Tap two day and date of the 40th anniversary, but the writer and the actor strike.

01:25:00 - Apple (Host)

Oh yeah.

01:25:01 - Mel (Host)

Yeah.

01:25:01 - Apple (Host)

Okay, wow Makes sense.

01:25:04 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, that definitely affected a lot in that industry.

01:25:07 - Apple (Host)

Yeah, and I'll throw one last question at you too, cause we always like to ask this what are you listening to now, like, what do you have on the car on the way over? Listening to, like, what's got your ear right now as far as artists?

01:25:23 - Alex (Host)

You know it's interesting, it's like well, I will say a couple of things. One is that you know I just finished the Replacement Spoke Trouble Boys. It took me like a year to read that thing and I didn't read it. I didn't finish it before we talked to Tommy Stinson, you know, which would have been good, good research material.

01:25:45 - Mel (Host)

That's hard to do though, yeah, yeah.

01:25:47 - Alex (Host)

But I have really been enjoying going back and listening to the Replacements, cause I just have a lot more context for the songs.

01:25:53 - Apple (Host)

Oh, okay, right.

01:25:56 - Alex (Host)

And so that kind of thing has been really fun. I've also been. You know, my teenage twin daughters are constantly listening to Taylor Swift and Hozier and you know, whatever else they're, whatever you know they have. I'm trying to think of who else is just. I mean, you know Adele and just the other things that you would think about, but that stuff is on heavy rotation in our house, Okay, and so you know, and I really I mean we saw Taylor Swift in Seattle, the Taylor, the Swiftquake you know the Richard Richter scale.

01:26:36 - Apple (Host)

I was excited that it's free on Disney. It's finally on Disney for free, the Eris thing, Cause I'm interested in seeing it.

01:26:42 - Alex (Host)

Yeah, it was spectacular, you know, and it's just, you know that that kind of I mean her success is just undeniable, true, and so seeing her.

01:26:50 - Mel (Host)

What do you take? What's your take on it? Like she's definitely talented and all that, but like you going with your daughters. What did you enjoy? The show Did you like?

01:26:58 - Alex (Host)

it.

01:26:58 - Mel (Host)

Like what was.

01:27:00 - Alex (Host)

I mean, I loved it not as much as they did right Really, but I just, but it was such a, it was such a spectacle and I feel like it lived up to the hype. Wow, and she really you know they. Just it was just like it was.

01:27:19

it was watching a, it was watching a play, with it in different acts right In terms of the stage sets and the different kinds of the costume changes and the way they enter, they engage the crowd and everybody had lights on their wrist. That then you know, the crowd was part of the stage or part of the light show, because the lights were moving up, moving on the on, people's wrists were synchronized in different ways, so the whole stadium was lighting up in cool ways and all that. So yeah, it was really neat. It was like it was just a. It was a.

01:27:50

It was a monumental event in the way that you know, like the first time I went to a dead show, the one time I went to a dead show in the summer of 1986. Okay, and I got to. I got to do a shout out to my two friends Steve Vandenoben, who went to college down in in Florida and his roommate really introduced him to the dead and he brought it back to us, and my friend Peter Hickey, who was a Wisconsin deadhead. Those two guys really brought the dead into my life. In fact, peter and I ended up doing a radio show together on at the University of Wisconsin on the student radio, and he used to play stuff from Terrapin Station and, and you know, trying to get sunflower and stuff like that on our show, but anyway, I went to.

01:28:34

I went to the show because, because those guys encouraged me to go, and that was a spectacle, right, I mean it was like. It was like a. I'd never been to a show where it was this community of people that were really, you know, like literally a traveling caravan and camping out and people had their flags up. And again, this was before there were cell phones, right, we still managed to find each other in a crowd of 40,000 people, right, and it was just, it was amazing. So it's just like these kinds of these kinds of sorry I'm doing so, it's just right here, wap, wap in the mind.

01:29:09

It's all in place, these kinds of communities getting together around you know being so enthusiastic and passionate. It really it's a moving experience and it's kind of a thrill and an honor to be part of it Wow.

01:29:24 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah, the whole Taylor Swift thing is such a trip to me Like it actually the tour affected the economy of the country. That's insane to even think about.

01:29:39 - Mel (Host)

Dude the Joanns and Michaels, Like with the beads. Yeah, that's a huge, huge thing, and it even pushed into the fish scene.

01:29:48 - Aaron (Host)

Oh yeah, I see a lot of fish heads wearing the bracelets now too, cause there's a lot of people that have teenage daughters and that's, you know, part of your life.

01:29:56 - Mel (Host)

If you're into music, your kids are gonna be into music, and what are they into? Not what you're into. They're into Taylor Swift and they wanna get a pedazzle to do all the things.

01:30:06 - Apple (Host)

And I'm just curious I'm sure you agree, cause you took your daughters to the show. I had the a while back. My dad was my dad's 81. And he was kind of bagging on new music and he's like in this Taylor Swift. You know, like the way he was describing her was almost kind of like he's talking about like Miley Cyrus or something Like she's being tacky. I was like dad, to me she's one of the most positive role models for girls in a long time. But okay, oh, how so, how so up there in her, in her skimpy, then it's like come on, dad. I was like she has always been kind of open book and she has taught girls like like, be comfortable with yourself, dress how you want, and if a dude or anybody treats you wrong or does something, you shout it from the rooftops, you write a fucking song about them.

01:30:53

You go tell every you don't be quiet about it and get sad. You tell somebody you be vocal about it. That's what she writes all her music. That's insane.

01:31:02 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, the way that she writes like I saw her documentary and I just did it on a whim, I think I was like sick watching a bunch of stuff. And I watched it and I was like this girl is incredible. She's gone through so much. And you know, from the from our perspective, looking outside in, we don't know what's going on with them, we don't know why they're acting crazy. We don't know why they break up with their boyfriends, we don't know why anything. But then you get to see their other side and hear like oh yeah, my mom was in the hospital, there's this, that and the other, and did my boyfriend cheated on me, whatever? And you're like holy cow, and they're still getting up and having to do this and having to perform. And I mean gosh, if I have a stomachache, I don't want to go to work.

01:31:49 - Mel (Host)

And they're, you know, yeah.

01:31:50 - Mel (Host)

You're right, oh, my Tom Tom. And so like I feel as if, yes, we're talking about musicians and they are regular people, but they're, they are, there's something extraordinary about them.

01:32:02 - Aaron (Host)

And anytime that Taylor wants to come on the show, we'll we're glad to have them. Absolutely We'll have her.

01:32:07 - Alex (Host)

We said the same thing yeah. I mean her work ethic is unbelievable. Exactly, that's another part of the role model that's so important and I and I deeply admire. You know, in my day job I work in intellectual property right and doing licensing and that kind of stuff and the fact that she took her.

01:32:28

She, she took her songs back right. She took her when, when she was and I don't know all the backstory, but when she was not given the opportunity to buy her master recordings and they were sold. They were sold to somebody else. That was such a that was such an offense to her, rightly so.

01:32:49 - Mel (Host)

Yeah, that's her words, it's her and she owns.

01:32:51 - Alex (Host)

She still owns the. She still owns the publishing rights to her songs, but she did not own the masters. So I, in fact I literally said this to my daughters a couple of days ago. I said I would love to have been in the meeting, whoever idea it was between her management and her and whoever else, somebody I can't just believe. This is my mind. Somebody said too bad, you just can't go back and re-record all those songs you know. And somebody a light bulb went off and said, or she said, you know what I'm gonna do, I'm gonna just go back and record all those songs. She could afford to do it, she could update them. That wouldn't have happened and wouldn't really have worked. Certainly wouldn't have worked easily in the analog world, you know, in the physical product world. But in the digital world it's a whole different story. Right, and when you can put out all your catalog again and label it Taylor's version and you have this rabid fan base, and are they gonna wanna listen to Taylor's version? Or?

01:33:53

they don't wanna listen to the version that they know.

01:33:54 - Apple (Host)

That basically got stolen from her right.

01:33:57 - Alex (Host)

It's an automatic.

01:33:59 - Apple (Host)

Well, and she was able to. She did a lot of like commentary too. Did she go with it to like in the updating of like this song was from and like it gave her a chance to like rediscover her. I saw a thing with her.

01:34:11 - Mel (Host)

It's like gave her a chance to rediscover her music again in a different way, by re-recording it and commentating Well and even like the political stuff that she was kind of like, you know, having to like hide and didn't want to like rock any boats, and finally she was like no, I can say something. I have a voice, I have an opinion. I'm gonna say something like, whether you agree with it or not, the fact that you can and want to, and she did, and I just yeah, like I really admire her and her work ethic and her Take a take a take a take a take, a take, a take a take a take.

01:34:43 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah, she, I love it yeah yep, well, thanks for hanging out with us, man. This was really fun this is super cool.

01:34:49 - Mel (Host)

I know this is great. Yeah, I'm glad.

01:34:51 - Aaron (Host)

Everybody. Go listen to the Too Much Evan Perspective podcast out everywhere. Follow them on the social media platforms and you know what you should listen to. No Simple Road too.

01:35:02 - Mel (Host)

That's right. Oh wait, you already are All right. Yeah, but also, when you listen to the Too Much Evan Perspective podcast, leave a review, leave a five star. That helps more than you know. And then tell a friend you heard that episode with you. Know, nick, you've heard that episode with Fred Armisen go for it tell your friends.

01:35:21 - Aaron (Host)

Yeah, and until next time we'll be back on Friday, I promise, but until then, take care of each other and smile at a stranger safety. Third, and hydrate, love yourself. And yeah, do that. And it's spring, so get out in the garden, man, go dig in the dirt. If you happen to live in Vegas or Arizona and it's like 190 degrees outside, you can grow stuff inside the house. So try and grow something this year, all right? All right, see you Friday. Love you all, peace!