Aaron
The no Simple Road crew gives you Scotty. Stoughton. Scotty. I'm Aaron man. How's it going?
Scotty
It's going really good. It's really nice to meet you all, and thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it, of course man, that's exciting for us too.
Apple
And I'm Apple.
Scotty
Apple. Yeah, apple, you didn't happen to live in Colorado once, did you?
Apple
Yeah, I did back in like oh gosh, it would have been 94-ish, 94-95. I lived in Aurora and then in Boulder for a little while, for about nine months. Then winter came and being a Las Vegas desert boy. I never experienced a winter like Colorado and was like I got to go back home. No, I totally get it?
Scotty
I asked because I only know one of the Apple in my life and I met this character in the mountains of Colorado in the late 90s when I was touring with my old band and he was a poet and he came up and he said hey, man. I love that freestyle and can I come up with you? And I'm like, of course, and he used to come out and then my band brought him on the road for a couple of years, you guys look similar His name was Apple and he had this beautiful poem book.
He got up on stage and we freestyle and it was the coolest thing ever.
Apple
Oh that's cool. I wish that was you. I just say I wish it was too. Sounds like a cool character there.
Mel
Right on, and my name is Mel Scott. Thanks for joining us. This is exciting.
Scotty
Yeah, thank you.
Aaron
Hey Scotty, what are you doing in Zurich?
Apple
Skeen.
Scotty
Well, actually I wish my wife suffers from Lyme disease and so I'm becoming an advocate of that horrendous thing that we've been dealing with for five years. So in the United States, I love my country but as a lot I don't like about it, and the healthcare system is one thing, and the way she's treated and diagnosed and supported is barbaric, right. So we have to come all the way to Switzerland to find this beautiful healing community called guys. They've been doing holistic treatments for a thousand years. What? And they just, yeah, it's amazing how we found this place through music, through a friend, and I was having a hard day, like, how are you doing? I'm like I have a friend that just went through this and so they had their parents Switzerland.
And it's so wonderful when humans they see you, they listen to you, they understand you. They don't want to just stuff you full of antibiotics and tell you just to get on with it. They're like, oh, let's go deep. So we've been here for two weeks and she's been undergoing the wildest of treatments. So we came to Zurich today because we fly out Monday get ready for the festivals. But she's a warrior and she's a leader and going to be a teacher to people that really are suffering from Lyme and their caregivers.
Because it's a, you should write it.
Aaron
Oh man, my heart goes out to you brother.
Apple
Yeah, and we saw the post on your Instagram about that that she just finished two weeks because Switzerland. They're like the top in the world and like blood transfusions and cleaning blood and stuff, aren't they?
Scotty
We did that, we did the Inus Phoresis and you get hooked up to a machine and for two hours it takes your blood out, cleans it, separates the plasma, puts it back in and her entire blood system was cleaned twice. You have to build up to it, but they hold up a bag and I'm going to post this now that she's okay and it shows like what's in your blood. It's a bag, like big bag, and it's all yellow and heavy orange and talk to the doctors and know what's in there and it's. You can see the heavy metals. You can they test it.
It's pesticides, microplastics, heavy metals all types of things that we have introduced into our environment that are having detrimental effects for us and for the next generation. So I like to be aware of all these things and not try to constantly educate ourselves. Live a little bit more holistic and we're pretty holistic, but just understand, like everything that we touch and breathe in and are around, air travel to just the water. We've really screwed it up. She's the Vermont girl Organic food, lived up on a farm and she still got pesticide. But what a great place that we could talk more about it.
Aaron
Yeah, no, man. That's amazing that you found that and especially that it came through the music. It's such a trip to me that the community that we're all a part of is such a magical place. It really facilitates the manifestation of magic into the world through the music and the community in a real, tangible kind of a way. It's not some like high-minded woo-woo idea, it's real stuff like what you're talking about that happens. I mean, I got chills talking to you right now. That's really, really amazing, brother. And I'm curious, scotty, the whole musical world that you're a part of, how did you get introduced to all of this?
Apple
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No, not Tiger Rose. I'm trying to find which one Organic medium roast Very limited release.
Aaron
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Scotty
Well, I appreciate what you said there. And the end of, or the middle of, my journey is when the light bulb went off and I wanted to get back, surrounded by people that put out a non egoic, immunity, centric vibration, where people were offered the limelight on stage, not pushed aside to ensure that your own, absorbed by the fans, thus feeding the ego Right. And I started out. My earliest years were, you know, I did mine with the grateful dead. Luckily I'm 53, caught it towards the tail ended of OG and went out on the road. And you know my brother. Unfortunately, my brother gave me some great records best of the doors and Bob Marley live in the 70s which really forged my path, but unfortunately he gave me live dead. I was like what is?
this, you know, he didn't give me, you know, american beauty, which was funny. So I didn't really. I came in like the deepest part of the grateful dead, you know. You know, live pretty psychedelic run of songs and so I didn't resonate right away. I went to shows, didn't really go into shows. Then I started going into the shows you know, same story Just was absolutely blown away by. Blown away by the intangible connection, but consciously and consciously that the audience had with the band and where nobody was stepping under the spotlight and stepping on their distortion battle going my turn. Certainly there's moments of that, but that really installed this feeling of wow, this is really selfless sharing of music. So I got really I really hooked on that and drum circles were the thing that really propelled me into music.
I played music for a while. I'm an amateur musician and I went for it pretty hard for a while. I love the drum circle. The power of the drum circle would pull me in at any time. I'd lead shows, find the circle, have my drums and play until the sun came up and it was the most incredible part of that journey to be transformed into something greater than yourself. I guess that's what did it. So yeah, the evolution led me to Colorado, grew up in New Jersey and went to school in Rhode Island surfing around the world and decided to go to Colorado and ended up getting in a band. It pretty good. Went to LA to get a record deal.
I ended up living in my car for a bit and band broke up no job, working in a warehouse in Compton, kind of going, what am I doing? And then I taught myself how to freestyle and I formed like a hip hop, funk, funk, reggae band on the heels of my you know, sublime was a big influence at that time and ended up going out and touring with like Primus, and Ice T was in the studio with Eminem and he's cutting Slim Shady, oh wow, yeah, that was in that world for a while, but eventually that led me to sitting in with a band called Leftover Sam and Mark Van May. He rest in peace. Their original banjo player, the most beautiful human being is. He saw me for who I was and at that time I was, you know, searching in this punk funk, trying to get a record deal and sponsored by Adidas and socks up and pink hair and just you know.
Mel
I got you. Hey, we all have our beginnings don't we. Right.
Scotty
And Mark saw me at his festival. He's like can't come do that thing with us. I'm like stop things. He's like stop it. But he started like energy exchange. I was like okay, you know.
I didn't know anything about the band, so they invited me and did a festival in Colorado in maybe 1999 and I get up on stage.
Scotty
I had no idea it was up there, leftover Sam, and it was Carl Benson on the sax course, stan and Maura on the drums, brian Stam or Jeff Syc on the drums, just all star jam and it was crazy freestyle.
And then Leftover Sam and took me out and Amiode did some rap grass around the country and sometimes it sucked, Sometimes it was pretty good, but the energy was always, was always great. And what that really taught me and why I created Winter Wondergrass was to get back to that feeling of artists that really care about the crowd, crowd that really cares about the fellow crowd member. And there's a better experience you can create when it's not just going to see the band. I want the band to just be a participant in the whole tapestry of the event. Right, Everyone the door guy, the volunteer is the bartender, Everyone's on this page of positivity and kindness and respect and everything elevates and you want to feel better leaving than when you arrived. That's our theme, you know. You know it's a lot of side effects?
0:24:32 - Aaron
No man, you know what.
Mel
That brings us perfectly into the present with what you've been doing with these festivals and how you got there, because, you know, for a long time we talked about too, like getting all these people together. There's already automatically energy there and how can you facilitate that, all that spontaneous energy, into something positive? How can you channel it? And, like you said, like instead of being an onlooker, being more of a participant in the vibe that's happening and contributing to the music through dance and through, you know, just like the whole energy of the place, and so that's pretty incredible what you've done through having a drum circle. You know, like the road that leads you to where you are now it's not simple, no, it's definitely not a simple road, but it's a really beautiful one.
Aaron
And you know it's funny that you say what you're saying right now. It's ironic. And just before we came down, mel and I were like getting ready and talking about doing this conversation with you and whatnot, and I was saying to her, like you know, we've always said, with no simple road, the magic for us that happened with this was we would talk to whoever musician from the band that we love and we'd get to know them as a person. And then when we went to go to the show, we have a completely different experience with that show because now we're connected energetically to the person that's making the music on a completely different level. And we were having this experience. And then one night we were at a show and it hit me. I was like, oh my God, that's what we're doing for the people that listen to the show. They're getting to meet these people on a different level and then when they're going to the show, they're having a deeper experience and in that it's fusing us together in the form of community.
Mel
Yeah, it's creating family instead of just musician up here, fan down here, vendor over there. It's like, oh my God, that vendor was on the show and they totally love this band and this band member now is up there taking a solo and it really makes it feel the smaller. In the best kind of a way. It brings the festival community and like the world at large in a smaller kind of a more intimate space, instead of like every person for themselves.
Apple
Yeah, and then to add to that, that's one of our goals too. We've had the opportunity to do it a few times now is at a festival, live talking to an artist up on stage before they perform that evening, or something. We did it with LP GOB and Country.
Fair, we did it with the Higgs at Terrapin Crossroads. We've had a few opportunities and that's really exciting to get in front of a live crowd and get to introduce them more to the person, to the artist, so then they can experience that when they see him play that evening.
Aaron
Yeah, and Scotty, I'm curious with Winter Wondergrass, like it's pretty much the only game in town when you're talking about festivals in the wintertime, right, was the thought behind Winter Wondergrass? Creating something for people in the time when there's nothing going on? That's like that.
Scotty
Like what Good Buddy Honors Beck says it was the worst, best idea. So I was at the time, I was involved in the post my musical career and I was involved with a lot of big shows not in this genre and I just really was disillusioned with the lack of connection to your point. But like it, just like I'm all about the bonfire and the drum circle and that that feeling like young, old, skinny, fat, black, white, green brand gives it crap. It's like we're getting down and that's all that matters and everybody there like there's so much love right. So when I pivoted back to Winter Wondergrass and had this epiphany driving across the desert, I was actually driving to LA and I was like his son was going down in the Utah desert and it's a beautiful lonely drive there middle of Western Utah. I'm like I need to create something kind of with Mark Ben.
He had passed away but it came out of my mind, you know what is the genre and what is the vibe I can do and when, and what's the craziest way to do this? And it's like, oh, it's just for a bluegrass festival in the winter, because Mother Nature is a great participant, right Like, you have to want to come and you have to be prepared, you have to think a little bit, you have to rally the right people. It's not like going to some of these warm, beautiful festivals nothing against them, that's awesome and it creates a little bit of a common challenge, you know. And the mountains and bluegrass, obviously, appalachia and history coming over from Europe and migration West, and so we've connected the mountain culture, which is rugged, adventure, seeking real, seeking open, full of love, gritty, dirty, you know just all about getting deep. And the musicians that migrated, that have put out this bluegrass and the jam grass, they all influenced from the great to bed and their ability to take on these eagerness roads to, you know, uncharted territories, and sometimes it's a success and sometimes it's not, but it doesn't matter. The journey of the most important part Getting here, seeing this and feeling it so, and you'll see when your shows pop up. But you have to be an idiot to do it. It's not easy and we create like a carnival.
Like you, first off, you're all. You're all. You're invited anytime. You're more than welcome to interview or podcast live or announce the band. I love this energy and that's what it's all about. Thank you, scotty, you're welcome, but you'll see, you come into this thing and immediately we transform a parking lot into a space that feels different. It just feels different and that goes.
The credit goes to like my team and my staff, like I treat everyone equally and I honor and respect each person's participation and contribution the volunteers sorting the trash onsite, the green team in the dumpsters at three in the morning making sure that we're diverting over 80% away from a landfill. You know the door guy that's just worked. You know 40 shifts in a row and he's a little well, jack, I'll look up to him and throw him some merch and smile and high five, throw my ticket to the show. We go to the lifties and give out free tickets during the event, just because that's it's a lot of money to come, but we want everyone to feel like it's, it's available to them. And then you create something that is collectively more important and it feels better for everyone that's putting in their ingredient, right. So then you come to this place and you've got multiple tents and a main stage and warm tents and outside and cold and costumes, and then the snow falls down and the musicians kind of go, you know like what the hell Wow.
And the crowd starts laughing because they're like yeah. And then the bands are like all right, it's still. Yeah, it doesn't matter if it's it doesn't have to be in tune.
People are like why don't you record other shows? I'm like because sometimes I don't think everyone needs to be recorded, I don't think everything needs to be live streamed. I'm all about the present moment and I you know if you're going to be out of tune, I don't want to record you. It doesn't matter if something goes out of tune because of the cold. It's that moment, it's that experience, that second, that essence of intergalactic connectivity that occurs only in the live setting.
Aaron
I think we learned that what you're talking about. At least I did touring with the dead and doing that thing. There were nights when it just didn't happen and that was okay, I was all right, we were cool with that man. At least we were here and we were together and it happened and when it, but when it did, it took us somewhere else and that spirit and that essence has carried on and I think really the jam grass community is the torch bearer of that thing in a real like viable kind of a way. That beating heart of whatever that thing is has stayed with the jam grass community and to be somewhere like what you're talking about, with snow falling, with very intentional surroundings around you, and you've created a container for the magic to occur.
Now, whether it does or not is not up to us. We show up, we do our part and if it shows up, then rad. But I I always wonder when I go to something like that how did you figure out how to put that together in that way? Because we've all seen it done wrong. Right, we've all seen the. You know there's trash all over the ground, a thousand empty balloons and shit everywhere and the after the shows over. It looks like a bomb went off and it's a different kind of a thing. How did you like come to this?
Scotty
I think I came to it because I've been a part of those types of shows and, to be totally honest, like I felt horrible leaving, yes, my heart hurt, yes, and so it didn't do anything for me and I understand why people do that. They don't know yet I don't blame them, I don't want to call anybody out, but I wanted to create my own thing without partners, with, not affiliated with any big corporate promoter, and it'd be nice sometimes, but I was never accepted. I never. I never got to go through the system and thankfully I didn't, because I'm creating my own my own way, and you surround yourself with really great people. Like my office manager I met when we were volunteering at Post Earthquake in Haiti, in a just devastated village in Laigon, near Port-au-Prince, haiti. Like eight years later sorry, 13 years later he's my office manager at the festival. Like the people that I work with are truly dedicated to the culture and to your point about the shows, like with the Grave for Dead right, it could be a good night, it could be a bad night, but we've come to this place where everything needs to be instant. I want the like, I want the thing, I want the live stream.
That's really bad for our consciousness. We're never going to get to a place in our lifetime if we don't understand that. That's fake. Let's have some patience, let's have some curiosity, let's let it evolve. If the intention is pure, the journey will end where it's meant to end. That might be the show, it might be at the encore, that might be the middle of the tour and that's the Grave for Dead. Taught me as well the patience. And when you get to that spot and you're not anticipating it because you're not meeting it you're loving every minute of it. And when you arrive to that 30 minute scarlet fire, that's what it was for me the first time. I was like, oh wow, I haven't heard that for some time. I haven't heard that in months. There it is and I don't hear that again for a long time like, oh courageous to not give people what they want every second to leave them wanting more.
Mel
Yes, that's just said so much, I'm like well yeah, that's a mouthful with what you said, like the, the culture that has been created through technology and the instant everything doesn't eat. We don't even know how to want anymore. Do you know what I mean by that? It's not like a true want, it's an expectation that we have all the time, like like the live stream, for example. You know so.
My favorite band is performing back East. I'm over here in the West, I want to see them. I'm going to pay for this live stream and then I put it on and it's in the background. I'm not locked in, I've got you know, I'm baking a cake, I'm doing this and the live stream is on and, okay, it's cool, the music's there. We're supporting the band, they're getting some money out of this live stream, but what you're speaking to is a whole different aspect of the communication and participation with that band or with that festival or whatever is happening. Like we're sitting on the sidelines with these, you know, with the live streams and these different ways. But when we're present and we're engaged, some, that's what contributes to the magic factor.
Aaron
Yep, yep and I. It's crazy what you're talking about, scotty. It's very strange for us doing this show because it's after doing like 400 of these episodes plus I can see a thread that goes through every conversation, like we're talking to the same person over 400 different individuals, like there's this weird common thread that's going on and and what you just said is part of a conversation that we've had with the last two guests that we've had on the show. Strangely enough, and I feel like what you're talking about, what you've created with this, is part of a larger thing that's going on with consciousness of the planet. I think that there's an awakening going on and the status quo doesn't cut it anymore for a lot of people. They're waking up to the fact that the system is a lie and and has sold them a bill of goods and will never fill the hole in them. And they're waking up and there needs to be places for those people to go, to surround themselves with other folks and to expand that are experiencing that at the same time.
And yeah, and to expand. And for a very long time I I knew that the festival community was special. I knew that it was a magical place and, like Mel said, there's a lot of energy there, but it never felt intentional. It felt like we're throwing a party and magic is a byproduct of that thing and it wasn't at the forefront.
Mel
Or really talked about it, yeah.
Aaron
And over the course of doing this, now I'm starting to see that that's not the case anymore, and I think that you're a big part of that man. That's, that's a. There's a. There's something happening underneath the ground right now, and what you're talking about is part of it, wouldn't you agree?
Scotty
Absolutely. And I think a big, a big goal of mine and honestly why I think I'm on this plan is plan. It is to be able to empathetically inspire conversations with different types of people and inspire those of us that might be lucky enough to have a little more awareness, and maybe critical, of a political party or a friend or a person. I want to inspire each of us to go to that person, like, empathize with that person, meet them where they are, because if we're truly trying to evolve spiritually and consciously collectively, there is no me and you, there is no right left, there's no team, you know. So, as we're moving forward and evolving, it's important to go meet that supporter of the presidential candidate that you dislike and listen to them. And when you empathize and walk in another person's shoes, the whole mirage of separation dissolves and you realize we're the same. And I got that from my travels and I think I've been to 40 countries and some of the best days I've spent were with like shepherds in Turkey, wandering down an ancient Greek trail for days and days and days and having these conversations with people where we don't speak the same language, but after a very short time we are speaking the same language. There's a smile, there's an offering of a cup of tea, there's a joke, there's a, there's kidding around, there's this feeling of connectivity and love and togetherness. That doesn't mean a language, it just means people to have an open heart and have empathy, and I love digging in with folks that I disagree with or that pick on me. And last thing I'll say on that is I had my moments where I'd be producing a festival and I'd get up on stage and because I am see it like not a lot, I'm delicate I want to be the star of the show. I don't play my festivals. I'm not at that level. I do speak a fair amount and people really enjoy it because I'm just saying things we all want to hear. We all feel, hey, lend the green team a hand, like thanks to this artist, like we really appreciate the volunteers, hey, we believe we're all this together. We need to go out into the community. Please, you know, respect the community. Let's take care of the little kids out there. They're tomorrow's fans and they'll be taking care of us. And that's where 12, but I've had moments getting to this point where I would say things like let's leave no trace and people would throw shit at me on stage, like bring up the band, like one more song, and it really hurt my heart. I, yeah, I've had two of those moments here.
I gave it a spoken word poem from an ancient Hopi elder and got criticized for, you know, stealing something from a Native American. I'm like, well, the poem was written so the white man could speak this to hopefully educate the white man to connect with the indigenous Heli Hopi elder. That was the point of the poem. And for people to be so sort of excited and want to just get a digger, like I want more of the band, like who do you think you are? So it's. I was depressed after that and my wife was half Native American. She's like you have every right to say that, anyway. So it's a courageous thing, but it's worth it.
Mel
You know what you're doing, to like you're putting these festivals together and then, like you said, kind of emceeing it. We need a point of contact. When we're at a festival, we need somebody up there so a quote, unquote elder, or somebody that can corral the crowd, that can give us a message, that can speak to us as a group, because the musicians they're doing their job. They have the whole separate job of continuing the energy and bring in other messages. But like somebody like yourself that actually gives a shit. You know that's a, that's a big part of it. It's not just like, oh, is this like a good looking, funny, whatever kind of a guy that they we hired? It's like no, this person that put it on, who's actually involved in every part of it, is bringing some message to the crowd and that's necessary, you know.
And you know to those people that don't understand and throw shit or, you know, get on with it, their consciousness just being there can shift. You know what I mean. They're like not everybody's going to get it when they get it, but maybe at home. Like that was really messed up of me, I shouldn't have done that, that was, you know what I mean. Like we don't always get to see the payoff in the moment. Later on, though, later on way down the line, maybe that person's bought like seven more tickets to your show and is putting money in your pocket, and so you know there's always some type of you know what's the word retribution in the in the long run, and maybe there's a lesson there, you know, for that person to be so crude in some point, where it's like such a beautiful moment, you know. And so kudos to you for taking on that role both behind and in front of the scenes to.
You know, thank God you don't have these big corporate sponsors like Pepsi Cola and stuff that telling you what to do and you're trying to create this whole beautiful conscious thing. And now you're bringing in Dr Pepper and you know, and nothing against those. You know, they're who they are, but, like you, wouldn't be able to have the same hands around it, and I think the hands are, are gentle. You know what I mean. They're not strangling. And you know, for the, for the scene, it's what's needed, like you said, that that creative, conscious, collective, spiritual elevation is. We need somebody such as yourself to do things like that that are going to get their feelings hurt. You know, like, empathize and be conscious. It's true, you know we have enough of the other. We have way so much of the other.
Apple
Yeah, no, I wanted to back up for a minute to something you said before we. We shared the same turn on moment at the Grateful Dead. I got very excited when you said scarlet fire, because that that was just real quick. My best friend we've been friends for 40 years now and in 89, he discovered the dead and I lost my best friend for a year I didn't know what the hell happened to him. He took a, bought a 32 foot international school bus and took off on dead tour. And then he comes back. He comes back a year later and gets me to go to his shows. My first show is 91 at the Silver Bowl in Vegas. I go in where I got like a Metallica shirt on. I'm like, oh, patchouli, hippies. But my best friend wants me to go. Halfway through, I'm starting to get it. He's smiling at me. Scarlet fire comes on and that like touched my soul All of a sudden. I got it and he's just smiling, looking at me like yes, best day ever.
And then that rolled in and then they did drums in space and I was one of those like dozen to two dozen people when everybody's sitting down chilling I was up dancing all the way through drums and he he couldn't have been happier. One of a in our friendship, one of the happiest moments ever. He's just like fuck yeah, dude. Got up and gave me a big hug and was like you got it man. Yeah, man. I just had to share that with you because man Scarlet fire.
Aaron
I love it it's. It's a trip, scotty, to think about, like when we were tribes and we were migratory. At night we would gather around the fire as as a community, and the elders would tell stories and, you know, the shaman would do the healing for for the people and we'd move on. And I feel like, in a lot of ways, the, the musical community that we're part of, the festival scene has the potential to be that now in a very real, tangible way. And, and it's like Mel said, it's important for somebody that is that has some experience to to be able to get up in front of that crowd and hold and and contain that it's and, like you said, it's not about an ego thing of look at me, I'm the star of the show, this is my festival kind of bullshit. This is your, you're the, you're the man that did it, you're the elder that is creating the container. So in every way, you have the agency to go up there and do that.
And I completely understand what you're talking about. Like if somebody was yelling at me on stage like you know can get off the stage, let's see the band I would crush my heart. I totally understand. But on the flip side who gives a shit Like okay, this, then this wasn't for you, bro. I'm sorry, and putting together something like this is not an easy task. It's not, dude, we've tried to just throw a party and it's hard.
We can't even get that off the ground. So I want to ask you, man, like in all the time that you've been doing these festivals because it's not just winter wondergrass that you do, you do renewal right, you do river wondergrass, there's a bunch of different ones. What is something that you've learned through putting these on that you never thought you would know Something that surprised you through this.
Scotty
Something that surprised me. That's a really good question. That I'm still doing it, that's a great answer. You know that I've sort of that. I've been able to survive, right. I didn't have a plan and I didn't have a budget for the first three years and I was putting the toilets together and buying the booze and putting up the money and put my house up for the first festival and just went for it.
And so I'm surprised that something inside of me got my ego moved away and let this true path open and unfold, no matter what it took, because I think being creative isn't something that you own or you have.
It's your ability out of the way of that which is already existing and your true essence and your true calling in life. And so I'm surprised as I developed over the years and the books I read and the travels I did led me to a place to be open enough to take a chance and take a risk and not really know what I was doing, but know that it was right. So that's really surprising. I tell people that are younger and getting involved with anything, don't be afraid to fail, don't think that what you're doing right now is your life's calling. Maybe it is. Maybe it's not. It's okay. Change, be terrible at something, learn something new, but have integrity and passion, and anything you do with passion and integrity will unfold the way it's supposed to and leads to fulfillment. So I'm surprised that that portal opened up and I'm slightly surprised that we're still doing it 11 and a half years later.
Aaron
Do you feel like 11 and a half years in, you found your stride?
Scotty
I wish I could say, yeah, I think. I think it's like the bands you come out and you have a great record and a great tour, and a great record, a great tour, and you're like, or a cruiser, yeah, that's great. And then the next band comes along and has a better tour and a better record and you start questioning yourself. And then all of a sudden, everyone and their moms bringing a bluegrass festival and people start doing it in the winter and then all this unique, amazing stuff and artists you found are being utilized elsewhere and that's okay, it's a free country. That's tough to deal with because we got on cruise control and then it was challenging and then cruise control challenging. I think the lesson there is that as soon as you get comfortable, like the life's over, Wow, have you?
Aaron
have you read the Rick Rubin book?
I just was thinking about that, yeah, man, it's a trip. Yeah, it's a trip. To think that because in the, in the, we're part of this culture that that glorifies hustle right, hustle culture, and like the idea that I can start something and that not be what I'm supposed to do, and fail at it and then start something new, is anathema to the mainstream. Like you go for it, you give it 100%, you fail, you dust yourself off, you get up and keep going Like you don't change lanes ever. But that kind of thinking drives people mad. It gives us no room to maneuver, we're stuck, and it forces us to be cast into these roles that we make up for ourselves. There's no freedom, even inside your own head. And so saying that's a big deal, man, like you know, nobody, nobody, wants to throw a festival to fail. You want to, you want it to be the best it can possibly be, but you have to be willing to let the chips fall like they're supposed to.
I did my part. My passion and my integrity are here. I did the thing. That's the best of my ability. And now, now what? And I think, just as a fan of what you're doing, seeing the artists that you've managed to surround yourself with speaks to the integrity of what you're up to. Those are those artists like Billy Strings and Green Sky, bluegrass and Leftover Salmon, and those, those are the cream of the crop in this thing. So if what you were doing was not the real deal, they wouldn't be doing the thing with you.
You know what I mean but but I understand what you're saying about. Like you know, you created this wonderful, unique, badass thing with intention and love and it was unique. And then other people started doing kind of offshoots and other. It's hard.
Mel
Well, that just makes it even more successful in that right, because what you know, like when you want to copy something, it's because it's awesome.
Aaron
The highest form of flattery you know like dang, that's cool.
Mel
What a great idea. I want to jump on it. So from that note like is there something new that you still want to accomplish? Maybe that has something or nothing to do with the festival or music scene.
Scotty
Absolutely. I love what you guys are both talking about and the integrity of creating something. One thing I've learned lately and it will propel me to what I'm supposed to accomplish is I've been able to let go, a little like working with my wife and supporting her in this journey, where that's the real shit Seeing somebody suffer and being there for them. It makes everything else, it makes it more beautiful, but it makes it less important, and not in a bad way. In a good way. It shines light on what the truth is, and so it's funny because it's been a tough year this year. We always sell out in a great way, Everything's awesome, but the industry right this year is in a weird spot, I think. Post COVID, everybody got a blue-dewed or wide Ticket sales are down across the board, From Lollapalooza to Bonnaroo.
To us, and as a simple independent promoter, it's more difficult, especially coming through COVID, to balance out, and while we had to make some adjustments and get crafty and cut some things, I have an ability now to just say fuck it. I have faith and we'll never download the music. We'll never pay anybody less than their worth and always more. We'll always take care of our staff. We might reuse that banner or that thing. So let's get crafty and let's get better. So when you're faced with these challenges, we can inspire each other and find the opportunity within it and then really sprinkle the magic. Because it worked really hard to get there.
I sent out an email months ago to our community. It's like, hey, if you're struggling, you can't make it. Lodging is expensive. This year it's tough. Send us an email, I can get your volunteerships. I'll call you a ticket. I don't know any promoters doing that. I don't have a problem with that. If you need it, we're here for you, Because it's not about today's show. It's about tomorrow, the next day, in five and 10 years and 20 years. I want to leave a mark to your question. That's bigger than a show. It's bigger than anyone ban. It's bigger than the ability to create a space where people feel safe, nurtured, inspired, connected and seen.
Mel
Yeah.
That last one is huge. It's really huge, man, because you're one of a million in a festival. You know what I'm saying. You're just one person in the body ticket that's in the crowd. When you're creating so much intention along each path of the festival, there's a marker somewhere in there that's going to make you feel special. The chances are everything that you're doing from the. You said something at the start about the green team and cleaning up and leaving no trace. One of the first Actually it was the first time I went to a fish festival at the Gorge. One of my things is I like to just hang out after the festival and let everybody empty out and then we leave at the end. That's just been a thing I enjoy doing.
Aaron
Wait till security kicks us out.
Mel
Yeah. Well then we're hanging out, laughing, joking around. We turn around and we see this big hill with trash everywhere Pizza boxes, beer cans, leftover blankets, balloons, whatever. I because being in one of those psychedelic spaces got so sad it hurt my feelings. I was like how can? This band just gave everything that they had to all of us to have this incredible night together. Now this is what we do. This is how we treat it. It's like you invite me for dinner and there's shit smeared on your table and spilled drinks on your carpet. My car has oil marks on your. It was just such a disservice to this beautiful evening. It really affected me.
Aaron
You started bringing trash bags to every show.
Mel
In that moment I did. I just walked up and picked up what I could carry. You know what I mean. In that moment I'm like, at least I cannot walk by something and just walk by it and leave it. I'll pick it up if I have to. I know how to wash my hands. I'll just wash my hands when I get to the bathroom.
That little measure alone in your festivals is a huge component to going back to that somebody being seen, somebody that that really matters to, somebody that is like whoa. We can have this incredible time and then look back and there's no trace. There's nothing there, for we all participated in having fun and in cleaning up. It's like fucking nursery school. You don't have snack time without cleaning up. Afterwards you push your chair in and you put your backpack back. We are and can do that as conscious adults, whether we're drunk, whether we're high, whether we're sober, whether we're anything. We're able to do that. I just want to thank you for making that a high priority in putting these on, because that really does set you apart from a lot of other festivals. It may not be the most important thing, but it's one of the most important things.
Apple
And also the way you treat the staff, because the other thing Mel does that she's gotten us into the way you talked about treating your staff. Everybody is equal. We usually get to know all the security people's names and everything because we'll look over Mel's gone for a minute. We're like, oh, she's hanging out with security. She gets to know everybody that introduces us, and now that's bled over to us to me and Aaron too like saying you know, check in on well, they're people too, you know.
Mel
They're like just because they have a little vest on doesn't mean they're not a part of the evening. And just because they know where my seat is doesn't mean that they're not listening to the music and like enjoying it, so like I'm not just. Oh well, you know everyone else is free for all to talk to, but this guy in the vest, no, he, I can't talk to him, I can't see how his night is. So I just it's my, it's just my way. It's not even like I'm not trying to do anything, it's just my way of including everybody in wherever I'm at. You know what I mean. Nobody needs to be ignored. If I'm at the grocery store, if I'm at a restaurant, like everybody gets their, everybody's acknowledged and they appreciate the heck out of that Because we've got.
Apple
I mean, when you see somebody kind of like from another walk of life that's working a venue and they're not familiar with the music but like the bluegrass scene, the jam band scene, all that, they really start to see it. You see them standing there, kind of getting into the groove, and then when you talk to them it opens up even more and they relate like I mean, as far as festivals go, like bluegrass and jam band, it's one of the best security jobs, because we're not fighting, we're not doing dumb shit, we're getting along spreading love and kindness and they feel that that's one of my favorite things to see, and Mel kind of brought that to the forefront with us like get to know, you check on them, see how they're doing, cause they're checking on us.
Aaron
Well, and I think too, man, what Scotty's talking about is measuring the success not in monetary terms. The success of the festival isn't the dollars and cents that are left over at the end, it's what was the experience for everybody that came? How did, how did we facilitate that? And and can we do it again next year? I mean, I think that, am I right?
Scotty
A hundred percent and I love what you're all touching upon and I wrote a song not too long ago called one stone and it's all about it's the ripple effect, right. So if you're kind to somebody that's working at a festival and having a tough day at security because there's some hip shit trying to break in and you're over there having a conversation, bring them a cold water. That person, they change, they evolve, they feel really good, right. So the rest of the people they interact with, they're going to have this like really kind demeanor. When I was out touring in the late nineties, we played bar gig after bar gig and it really dawned on me to go into these shows and like get there for soundcheck and the sound crew was like usually up all night doing shitty drugs and and drunk and smoking cigs and just not being nice, right. So we're like sorry we're here to play, and then the bartenders would be kind of indifferent and and just you know drinking and and then the manager would kind of be there and not really be doing his things with, you know, entertaining guests and not really being present. So there was this scattered energy and then and then the show wasn't so good and the connection with the crowd wasn't that good and I imagined the tips weren't that good. And it just dawned on me like what, if we like, changed the paradigm.
When I started creating festivals I had my production crew. I said you guys can't throw zip ties on the ground. I like what's how it's done. I'm like not here. He can't throw your cigarettes on the ground, I don't care if you smoke. And people were like F you right For years.
And now it's like my operations team and production team we do yoga in the morning. Nobody drinks. I don't care if you drink with it, it doesn't. It's. That's not the point. If that's the point, you're in the wrong business, so you're working for the wrong team.
The point is creating the magic for those kids that work really hard. They don't have the best lives in the world and they get to come to the show and they see their favorite band and you're nice to them. You greet them on the way and you high five them. You pick up a cigarette button and throw it away in front of them, not as a way to demean, but like inspire. You do that all day alone. And what does that? Do it like rises the collective vibration and everyone and we just treat everyone with dignity. Without dignity or nothing. With dignity we can overcome anything. And with our challenging times where we're just totally tied into technology and the next best thing and the next swipe and like what's how great I am, like all that is bullshit, it's completely fake. It's completely fake. It's a good tool. I'm not against it. It's a tool. But we need to use discernments and realize that that is not real existence. And once we do and we inspire that change without preaching, by example, by love, without saying no.
I'm just saying try this, look at this big heart, look at this kind of it. Really, it really has a lasting effect, and that's that's how we change it, and that's you know I really believe that's our collective mission.
Aaron
I agree.
Mel
You can like raise the vibe with such small gestures, just like what you were saying, like the smallest little gesture, the smile. Now that security guard is sweet. So now the person that they let in is in a good mood because the security guard was sweet. That person that they let in that went to the vendor, was, is on a high because the security guard was cool. Now the vendor that was stressed, selling so much merch is like wow.
That person, like if we could follow that little camera all the way through the festival to see how that a little bit of that vibe was raised, and if we're all of us are doing it, or even half of us or a quarter of whatever, that's how much the vibe can form, small gestures, and that's what I really appreciate like us talking about, because that's sometimes we don't think that we can make a difference. I think that that still is out there. Maybe a lot of people realize that the contrary, but there's still that feeling out there that maybe one person can't do so much to affect another one and I think that this is a good reminder that that's not true.
Apple
Yeah, I'm curious because we've touched on all the like everything you're curating as far as the you know the scene and treating each other nicely, all that. How do you curate the lineup? Is this something you do? Or I mean, it seems like it almost may do it itself 11 years in, to winter wondergrass and stuff, because the pool of talent and artists in the bluegrass community is vast.
Scotty
Yeah, people ask me how I book, and the number one thing is you have to be able to play music if the power goes out.
Mel
Right on Simple.
Scotty
That means a lot Like you're okay with it. You don't need the bells and whistles for the show. You hold the show here, right? You can exchange your ideas with the crowd without that. Look at one candle and a stool. That's where it starts. I'm really proud of the lineups each year because I don't. I take a lot of chances and I used to get a lot of flack. Where's Billy? Where's Green? Everyone has to evolve. They're my friends, I love them. They're always welcome. But I'm looking at like this year I've got 11 new bands on the lineup and they're mind bending, face melting artists that are inspired by the Billy streams.
There's no other Billy streams but of his energy and what he did with the scheme. He elevated everything. He changed the paradigm of what's possible and what it means to be good. When I was in a band, I drank a lot, I partied a lot. I had a good time. We were pretty good. That doesn't fly anymore. It certainly doesn't fly on bluegrass. If you want to be good, you have to work really hard.
My goal with booking bands and finding new talent is honoring those people, those kids that are out there dedicating their lives to it, that are up and coming, that haven't had a chance yet. We're putting them on 5,000 person winter undergrads and giving them the late night slots and telling them to sit in with the super jam and opening doors everything to them. That's what's important. I brought Billy's streams in for the first time. He was in a van and he was on the side stage. I had him on every single winter undergrads. We were the first people to give him a headlining slot.
A couple years ago I was sitting with him and I said, hey, thanks so much. I'm still involved with your trajectory and your success. I get to produce a show for you. I'm really grateful. That means a lot. He's like I'm really grateful to you for treating me the same as everyone else. I got there and showed up like a dumbass in the van and didn't know what I was doing. You treated me the same as you treated headlights. That's what it's all about. Some give respect, show these are at a stignity. Honor the ones that are working hard. If they're succeeding, they always have a home at winter undergrads.
You guys, please. I know you're wrapped up, but please come. That would be huge, whenever you can come. You can come to Tahoe, you can come to Colorado. However, I can help facilitate that. There's always a way Helping us get the message out to more people to just feel this medicine and feel this community and this connection. We also do these river events I talked about real quickly. That are just some of the greatest things I've put together A couple trips, three musicians, 22 guests, nine guides, more purpose, less party. It's about coffee conversation, that sweet moment of hearing your favorite singer wake you up with a cappella. You know I have a beard, a campfire, but it's not the point. The point is the music, the connection and nature. What I found out there I've had right wing Republicans in the Texas oil industry. It's a left wing, full-fledged hippies that would hate on each other. We'd sit and we'd find common ground because we spent a minute to see each other for who we are. That's the beauty of it.
If you could come and join one of those, oh, my God, that would be awesome when we're connecting with this community down there and we're cleaning up this whole town. We're taking care of it. I invited every single Mexican local family in the town to come to the festival for free. They were singing songs, freaking out. They've never seen the picking on the dead's plan. They're like that's the point. If you notice what I do, there's no hotel packages, there's VIP, but there's no hotel and get this and be isolated and all you can eat here and stay in the on crucifix when we launched Baja, which is only 300 people. Where do I go? Where do I stay? We're like it's in El Sorgento.
Aaron
We're out. We lost that Wow.
Scotty
To understand that freedom comes with anxiety and uncertainty, because then you get there and you're like I did it, I'm proud, I'm good, I'm feeling confident, and that's what we need in this world. Please come visit me and hang out. You guys are in LA. No, we're Portland, we're busy, we're busy. Oh, way better, I found LA. We think so.
Mel
Our daughter lives in LA, we know all about LA.
Aaron
We're good here. Yeah, right on, man Good night, Scott.
Mel
What a pleasure. Yeah, man, thank you so much for elevating our Saturday morning man. This has been really great.
Aaron
Safe travels home man.
1:Mel
Look forward to further conversations and meeting you in person and exchange in big hugs and we'll see you at some something grass soon We'll figure it out.
pple
One of the grassy areas is the grass is.
Mel
We'll see you at.
Aaron
Love you, brother, Take care man.
Scotty
Right on Stay in touch, yeah Be well, oh that, that right.
Aaron
There is the real fucking deal.
Mel
I just fell in love with another one of our no simple road family members.
Apple
Yeah, that's, that's, you can feel everything he talked about the integrity, the love, the kindness. It just comes through his smile and his eyes and his speech Wow, thank you, scotty.
Aaron
Yeah, you know, we've talked about the festival scene for a very long time on this show. We're firmly entrenched in a meshed in it, and that is what we've been talking about.
Mel
Yep, right there Right under our noses.
Aaron
Yeah, I didn't even know about it, but you know what?
Mel
You don't know what you don't know.
Apple
I love that at the end, how he says that like I don't do all these inclusive, exclusive things, but like that's dope and Baja invite the entire town and their families to come to your festival for free. It's a way it should be.
Mel
Dude, that is like next level. Yeah. Really, it's truly next level, just the level of consciousness that he is putting into everything.
Aaron
You know, I'm just going to say that the ripple from the Grateful Dead is continuing to roar.
Apple
Yeah.
Aaron
Do you know what I'm saying?
Scotty
Like you, said but what was I said?
Apple
One song one stone about the ripple effect and everything that's around.
Aaron
Yeah, well, everybody go. Do you have the website for Winter Wondergrass?
Mel
Anybody, anybody, no, I actually no, it's yes, I do.
Apple
What is it? Winter Wondergrasscom Okay.
Mel
Well, good, they got their domain.
Aaron
Go to winter wondergrasscom and buy your tickets.
Apple
I know there's a Tahoe one coming up in April and and if you want to know more about Scott and Scotty and what he's up to, you can go over Instagram. Follow him at Scotty SCOTTY bonfire, and that also has links to winter. At Winter Wondergrass he's doing a lot of things and we didn't even touch on that. He's also very proactive in paddleboard community.
Mel
Oh yeah.
Apple
This has started, you know, stuff there to encourage getting out into nature. And wow man, he, just he does a lot and he does it with style and integrity.
Mel
That Baja festival the Baja Wondergrass he was talking about is April 24th through the 26th in Baja, so there's links to buy tickets for all of the festivals that we talked about and also his story. Like you know, the experience frequently asked questions, so hit up that website and get all your questions answered and and the what is the winter wondergrass that that's coming up soon and call it steamboat springs.
Apple
Colorado, march 1st through 3rd, and then the one up in Tahoe April 5th, 6th and 7th in Tahoe.
Aaron
All right, everybody, you know where to go and you know if you're listening to this show, then good chance that you've felt this conversation and if you have hear what Scotty said, if you have a desire to go to one of these, if you're like you know, wow, I really feel the pull, but you financially can't make it happen, do what he said and send him an email.
Mel
Yeah, you never know.
Aaron
See what can happen. Open yourself up to the possibility that something really cool is waiting for you there, and finances shouldn't be a barrier to you having an experience.
Mel
And being a part of that festival as a volunteer would probably be one of the best things that you've done with your winter.
Aaron
Yep, so we'll leave it at that. We'll see you on Monday with another episode of the no Simple Road Weekly Rewind. Please come join us, hang out with us, hang out and talk Just the three of us, it'll be fun. And then, until then, take care of each other man, smile at a stranger Safety. Third, hydrate and this week, do something that takes you out of your comfort zone. Just one thing, one thing that, like I would never do that. And then you do it. You don't have to go jump out of a plane I'm not talking about that but, like you know, go buy a homeless person sandwich if you're not into that, or whatever. I don't want to tell you what to do, but you get it.
Mel
As soon as you're comfortable, life is over. Take chances I am.
Aaron
We love y'all.